2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

[JL25and3]

Stottlemyre was a very good starting pitcher with teams who couldn't hit very much.

Stottlemyre should definitely be on that staff somewhere. And while Guidry is one of my all-time favorite Yankees (see my sn), he should only be there if Billy Martin is managing. Guidry was phenomenally successful during Billy's stints, but in between he had to recover from Martin's pitcher abuse.

[TheInfallibleOne]

A little while ago Francesa listed his All-Yankee team since 1962

Since I don't go back that far, here's my All-Yankee team since 1976

LINEUP

LF Rickey Henderson
SS Derek Jeter
1B Don Mattingly
3B Alex Rodriguez
DH Reggie Jackson
2B Robinson Cano
CF Bernie Williams
RF Paul O'Neill
C Thurman Munson

STARTING STAFF

Ron Guidry
David Cone
CC Sabathia
Andy Pettitte
Orlando Hernandez

CL Mariano Rivera
RH-SU Goose Gossage
LH-SU Sparky Lyle

Really? Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle and Berra don't make your team? Hard to take it seriously to be honest. Almost all of those guys are modern day guys who were great, but not as legendary as the Yankees of old.


C - Berra
1B - Gehrig
2B - Cano
3B - Rodriguez
SS - Jeter
LF - Mantle
CF - DiMaggio
RF - Winfield
DH - Ruth

BN - Henderson
BN - Jackson
BN - Munson


SP - Ford
SP - Guidry
SP - Pettitte
SP - Ruffing
SP - Mussina

CL - Rivera
SU - Gossage
SU - Wetteland

Manager - Casey Stengel

[philleotardo]

Really? Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle and Berra don't make your team? Hard to take it seriously to be honest. Almost all of those guys are modern day guys who were great, but not as legendary as the Yankees of old.

Your teacher would write in red pen "Re-read and come back to me."

[Hitman23]

Really? Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle and Berra don't make your team?

It was mentioned in the post that it was from 1976 to present.

But from his list of starters I would replace El Duque with Moose.

[TheInfallibleOne]

It was mentioned in the post that it was from 1976 to present.

But from his list of starters I would replace El Duque with Moose.

And this is why I shouldn't visit this site from my blackberry. My bad.

[SLURPEE]

Was hoping against hope they won 100 in a row.

[Hitman23]

And this is why I shouldn't visit this site from my blackberry. My bad.

It happens to us all.

[JL25and3]

It was mentioned in the post that it was from 1976 to present.

But from his list of starters I would replace El Duque with Moose.

Moose was better, but Duque was way more fun to watch. Most entertaining Yankee pitcher since the incomparable Luis Tiant.

[apalradio]

Moose was better over the long haul, but El Duque was brilliant for several years and was such a post season horse. Can't go wrong with either one. I also agree with an earlier poster about Stottlemyre being included. In his prime, he was one of the best starters in the AL.

[Yankee Tripper]

Mel retired in 74 which is 2 years before the condition set for 76 - present

[Yankee Tripper]

A little while ago Francesa listed his All-Yankee team since 1962

Since I don't go back that far, here's my All-Yankee team since 1976

LINEUP

LF Rickey Henderson
SS Derek Jeter
1B Don Mattingly
3B Alex Rodriguez
DH Reggie Jackson
2B Robinson Cano
CF Bernie Williams
RF Paul O'Neill
C Thurman Munson

STARTING STAFF

Ron Guidry
David Cone
CC Sabathia
Andy Pettitte
Orlando Hernandez

CL Mariano Rivera
RH-SU Goose Gossage
LH-SU Sparky Lyle

That's a pretty good team. Better than the all-time Met team for sure. I'd go to war with this squad.

[Yankee Steve]

That's a pretty good team. Better than the all-time Met team for sure. I'd go to war with this squad.

Uh... No David Wells???

[apalradio]

Mel retired in 74 which is 2 years before the condition set for 76 - present

True enough, but I was more referring to Francesa's list.

[Battingly]

Moose was better, but Duque was way more fun to watch. Most entertaining Yankee pitcher since the incomparable Luis Tiant.

Moose was better over the long haul, but El Duque was brilliant for several years and was such a post season horse.

... and he was MONEY in the post season.

Everyone talks about what a big game pitcher Andy has been, and he is, but what about El Duque, at one point he was 9-1 as a starter in the post season with an ERA in the low 2's

Unfortunately he came to us as an old rookie, he had the bad luck of being born in a communist country, so his prime did not last very long, and already past his prime, he lost his last two post season starts to take his PS record as a starter to 9-3, but when he was right, when he was EL DUQUE, he was fearless and absolutely brilliant in a big spot, and he saved our bacon more than once, like that unforgettable night in Cleveland when that brilliant 98 season threatened to go up in smoke, and he threw an absolute gem verses a lethal lineup, he mowed them down.

Others can make a case for Moose or Wells and I'm fine with that, but give me El Duque and lets roll.

[1936-1939JoeNLou]

Joe Gordon was slightly better than Cano.

Lefty Gomez has to be on any Yankees all time staff. Dude won 2 pitching triple crowns, and was arguably the greatest AL pitcher in the 1930's, only falling behind the great Lefty Grove.

[Yankee Tripper]

Uh... No David Wells???

Wells, Clemens, Mussina, Catfish, Jimmy Key

There are a number of guys you could fillout the staff with.

[Yankee Tripper]

Joe Gordon was slightly better than Cano.

Kind of a toss up to date but I have a feeling Cano is going to out distance Gordon by a wide margin when all is ssaid and done.

Lefty Gomez has to be on any Yankees all time staff. Dude won 2 pitching triple crowns, and was arguably the greatest AL pitcher in the 1930's, only falling behind the great Lefty Grove.

Yeah no way you leave Lefty off the all time Yankee staff.

[1936-1939JoeNLou]

The anchor of the Yankee staff in the 1930's, Gomez was a brilliant pitcher who featured a blazing fastball and a sweeping curve. In his prime, from 1931-1939, Gomez won 163 games, including 4 20+ win seasons, with a winning percentage of .660. His ERA was 3.17, made more impressive when you consider that the league ERA at the time was 5.00. Furthermore, he won 3 strikeout titles, 2 ERA titles, had the most wins in the league twice, all adding up to two pitching triple crowns. In addition, Gomez led the league in innings pitched once, led 3 times in shutouts, and led in complete games once as well. This while pitching in the greatest offensive era in history, where the average hitter hit .300.

Lefty was a 7 time all star and for those who love clutch, he was undefeated in the WS with a record of 6-0 2.86 and 4 CG. Talk about your big game pitcher.

However you cut it, Lefty Gomez is a legend.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVX49qwiVuk

[Yankee Tripper]

However you cut it, Lefty Gomez is a legend.

If you were making a starting staff of the 5 best lefties of all time regardless of team and era, he might make that staff.

Spahn, Carlton, Johnson, Grove, Hubbell, Ford, Gomez and Koufax are probably the candidates (in decending order of Ws). Though I may be missing someone.

[1936-1939JoeNLou]

If you were making a starting staff of the 5 best lefties of all time regardless of team and era, he might make that staff.

Spahn, Carlton, Johnson, Grove, Hubbell, Ford, Gomez and Koufax are probably the candidates (in decending order of Ws). Though I may be missing someone.

Agreed with that. He may not make the starting five, but definitely deserves to be on the staff. I always felt Lefty Gomez was underrated by the general public, quite the contrast with Sandy Koufax, who is very overrated.

[Yankee Tripper]

Agreed with that. He may not make the starting five, but definitely deserves to be on the staff. I always felt Lefty Gomez was underrated by the general public, quite the contrast with Sandy Koufax, who is very overrated.

Koufax lead the league in ERA each of his final 5 seasons and compiled an ERA under 2 over that stretch with an ERA+ 166. It is one of the greatest 5 year runs of pitching dominance in the history of baseball.

[JL25and3]

... and he was MONEY in the post season.

Everyone talks about what a big game pitcher Andy has been, and he is, but what about El Duque, at one point he was 9-1 as a starter in the post season with an ERA in the low 2's

Unfortunately he came to us as an old rookie, he had the bad luck of being born in a communist country, so his prime did not last very long, and already past his prime, he lost his last two post season starts to take his PS record as a starter to 9-3, but when he was right, when he was EL DUQUE, he was fearless and absolutely brilliant in a big spot, and he saved our bacon more than once, like that unforgettable night in Cleveland when that brilliant 98 season threatened to go up in smoke, and he threw an absolute gem verses a lethal lineup, he mowed them down.

Others can make a case for Moose or Wells and I'm fine with that, but give me El Duque and lets roll.

Also, despite Mussina's Gold Gloves, Hernandez was probably the best fielding pitcher I've ever seen. Not the biggest deal, perhaps, but also lots of fun to watch. I can't recall any other pitcher who went after popups as aggressively as Duque did, rather than just standing aside and letting the other infielders chase them.

Once he caught a grounder smashed right at him, but the ball got caught in the webbing of his glove. Without missing a beat, he knew exactly what to do; cool and relaxed, he just took off his glove and threw it to first base with the ball still in it.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Wells, Clemens, Mussina, Catfish, Jimmy Key

There are a number of guys you could fillout the staff with.

Jimmy Key came to my mind too -- he at least has to be in the discussion.

Also, it might be heresy to some, but I'd give strong consideration to Winfield over O'Neill in RF

[1936-1939JoeNLou]

Koufax lead the league in ERA each of his final 5 seasons and compiled an ERA under 2 over that stretch with an ERA+ 166. It is one of the greatest 5 year runs of pitching dominance in the history of baseball.

But he did it in a huge ball park in a very pitcher friendly era. The average ERA during that time was in in the 3.50 range. So if you had a 3.60 ERA in 1960's NL, you where a below average pitcher. 1966 Dodger Stadium had a park factor of 92 Batting/ 91 Pitching, 100 being a neutral park for both batting and pitching. So when we take those factors into account, Sandy's ERA's are not that impressive. He had all the advantages. Despite all that, his last 5 years were historic. But it's not the greatest 5 year period of all time, like many would make it seem. In addition, his first 7 years were pretty average, with some years being mediocre. His career ERA+ is just 131, which is not even in the top 25 all time, and not much better than Gomez and his 125 ERA+.

Is it a coincidence that his ERA dropped from 3.52 to 2.54 after the move from hitter friendly LA coliseum to Dodger Stadium in 1962?

There is a cool feature on Baseball-reference in which you can, using relative stats, translate players statistics to different eras. Well, if you take Lefty Gomez, and transport him to the 1968 Dodgers, his career would have looked like this:

196 -108 2.09 ERA 2,791 IP 1,954 H 1,635 SO 1.035 WHIP

We'd be talking about Gomez in a very different tune. According to the neutralized stats, he'd even have seasons like this :

21 W/ 1.67 ERA / 269 IP

26 W/ 1.52 ERA / 308 IP

27 W/ 1.37 ERA/ 308 IP

20 W/ 1.93 ERA/ 271 IP

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...01-pitch.shtml

So while I do rank Koufax higher than Gomez on the all time list, Koufax is overrated in that he is not the greatest pitcher of all time, or in the top 10, or even in the top 20. He was a great pitcher however, and I'm not trying to argue otherwise.

[Yankee Tripper]

Despite all that, his last 5 years were historic. But it's not the greatest 5 year period of all time, like many would make it seem.

True but 166 ERA+ has to be top 5 for a 5 year run. I can only think of better 5 year stretchs wrt to ERA+ from Pedro, Maddux & Johnson and they were all in 5 man rotations with a lot few innings and a hitters era where a better ERA+ is a bit easier to obtain.