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  1. #276
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    One game? Four games?

    Like the Zen Master has said - "We'll see"
    Let's talk in August when Darvish enters territory his arm hasn't seen before.....
    Agreed. Dice K also had "superior stuff" in Japan as well. Darvish very well may end up being everything he is said to be but he has to do it here first and do it over a longer period of time.
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  2. #277
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Agreed. Dice K also had "superior stuff" in Japan as well. Darvish very well may end up being everything he is said to be but he has to do it here first and do it over a longer period of time.
    It's easy to realise that their stuff are in two different levels if you have chances to watch their games (not highlights) in Japan.

  3. #278

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    It's easy to realise that their stuff are in two different levels if you have chances to watch their games (not highlights) in Japan.
    You just never know if he'll have the same success vs MLB players, or if he'll have trouble adapting or something like that. Hell, we have guys who have trouble switching leagues from NL to AL or moving from one city to another. There's rarely a slam-dunk in this sport, especially when it comes to pitching.

    BTW do they use the same ball over there?
    27 World Championships
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  4. #279
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    It's easy to realise that their stuff are in two different levels if you have chances to watch their games (not highlights) in Japan.
    I can only take your word for it as I can honestly say I haven't seen one Japanese game. Which is why I don't count or discount players until I see them here for a period of time.
    Life is good!

  5. #280
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    Some wanted Darvish, others didnt. Some wanted the Pineda trade, others didnt. I think the bottom line is that neither move can be judged yet. The issue I have is that there are SOME (keyword SOME, not all, not many, not the majority) here, and MANY elsewhere i.e other boards, the media, people in my life I discuss sports with...that have made their final judgments on both moves. Its the same stuff with the Granderson deal, when you had a group of people deeming it a failure based on April-May 2010 when Jackson was hitting .400 and Granderson wasnt doing much.

    You have to let these things play out down the road.
    I won't matter how many times some guy gets lucky and wins the one in a million lottery, I will still think he's dumb for buying the tickets. I judge trades by the information that is available at the time they are made. Waiting for things to play out, as if we have that sort of control over the future, is not useful in my opinion.
    That doesn't mean I would intentionally walk around and say "I told you so." just because I got it right. I do however get happy when trades and the likes go the way of the Yankees, regardless of whether or not I liked them in the first place.

  6. #281
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    You just never know if he'll have the same success vs MLB players, or if he'll have trouble adapting or something like that. Hell, we have guys who have trouble switching leagues from NL to AL or moving from one city to another. There's rarely a slam-dunk in this sport, especially when it comes to pitching.

    BTW do they use the same ball over there?
    I'm not saying the Yankees must sign him. I just want him to be a Yankee because I'm also a big fan of him. That's not because of some third hand reports when he's still in Japan. I have followed him when he's 17 and have tracked his development since then. My experience of watching his games lead me to believe that he can succeed in the major. I understand why people don't want to take that risk and I'm not going to say how right I'm even if he does succeed. I'm just sad he doesn't pitch for the Yankees.

    They have used a similar size ball in Japan last year.

  7. #282
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    I can only take your word for it as I can honestly say I haven't seen one Japanese game. Which is why I don't count or discount players until I see them here for a period of time.
    I understand and I have no problem if people think that the risk of getting him is too high, to be honest.

  8. #283
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Agreed. Dice K also had "superior stuff" in Japan as well. Darvish very well may end up being everything he is said to be but he has to do it here first and do it over a longer period of time.
    DiceK was never 91-97 and he never had Darvish's offspeed stuff. Not even close.

  9. #284
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Josh Hamilton became the third hitter since 1918 to have at least 2 intentional walks and at least 1 hit by pitch in a game against the Yankees.

  10. #285

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    I don't like being a negative Nancy, but it was easier to root for AJ. At least he'd spot us a decent start from time to time. Hughes and Garcia haven't given us at least one good start between the two of them.

  11. #286
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    I don't like being a negative Nancy, but it was easier to root for AJ. At least he'd spot us a decent start from time to time. Hughes and Garcia haven't given us at least one good start between the two of them.
    Rooting for AJ made me a drug addict/ alcoholic................

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  12. #287

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by montrealer View Post
    Rooting for AJ made me a drug addict/ alcoholic................

    See! Two positives!

  13. #288

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Clearly both Hughes and Garcia need to exit the rotation ASAP. Sadly, Andy Pettitte can't replace both of them. As much as I can't stand Garcia (2012 version), at least Hughes has some potential value in the bullpen. Garcia has no value whatsoever in the pen. Therefore, he should either stay in the rotation until there is a viable upgrade for the #5 spot (at this point, can one of our minor leaguers be any worse?) and then dealt for whatever we can get for him.

  14. #289

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    idk. yankees got feliciano after his arm fell off too. ...
    always reasonable

  15. #290
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    A few months ago, it looked like Cashman had assembled a killer rotation, as deep as it's been in years. Today, it's as much in flux as ever. 60% of the projected rotation is in shambles. Pineda's out. Hughes continues to be a head scratcher. And Garcia just looks like toast. The difference would be Pettitte coming to Garcia's rescue, and maybe someone like Phelps stepping in and bailing out the sinking ship that is Phil Hughes. Still hard to imagine this team going deep into the postseason with the way the rotation currently looks.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  16. #291
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    DiceK was never 91-97 and he never had Darvish's offspeed stuff. Not even close.
    I already conceded the Dice K point above but I am still going to wait to see how Darvjsh adjusts to pitching every fifth day vs once a week and more than three weeks before getting too excited.
    Life is good!

  17. #292
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    In my opinion, whether this is a catastrophic blow or not depends on mostly the owners now.

    In short, the goal has been to get under that 189 million threshold for 2014.
    But to do that, if we wanted to retain Cano and Granderson, the key was to have a cheap but awesome rotation, where the only mega millionaire was CC.

    The main cogs in that plan were Pineda, Hughes, Banuelos and Betances. Yes there are some secondary options like Mitchell, Phelps and Warren, but the 4 names mentioned above were the headliners.

    Hughes seems like a lost cause. As a starter, he had one half season of success. He is not a 20 year old prospect anymore, potential needs to be replaced with results. He could not get hitters out in the second half of 2010 because he did not have good secondary pitches. He could not get them out last year because he was out of shape and was not throwing hard. This year he has the pitches, the strength and the velocity, but he cannot get them out because he cannot locate.
    Maybe it's time to just say "he cannot get hitters out" without a qualifier. Is that certain? I don't know. but it's a valid question.

    Pineda gone for 2012 with a labrum tear. In reality, he'd miss the same amount of time with TJ surgery. But that operation is actually almost a guaranteed success. It's a 12-18 month absence, but once guys come back, they come back with gusto. This is different. It is a possibility Pineda will never throw in the mid to high 90's again. It is definitely realistic this injury ends any shot of him having the potential career we thought. It is even possible it ends his career outright. I suspect he'll be back at the major league level. But what he'll be, who knows? I suspect he will not be the top of the rotation Robin to CC's Batman.

    Betances seems to get further and further from the majors every single day. In 17 innings of minor league ball, he has walked 17 batters. His control is making him look more like the next Andrew Brackman than the next Yankee prospect.

    Even Manny Banuelos continues to struggle, his control is not getting better, although he is still young, and he now sits injured.

    It is possible that we sit here next year at this time and have Hughes coming off a stellar second half, Pineda throwing 96-98 off a mound, Betances and.or Banuelos coming off a stellar spring and starting to do well in our major league rotation. But would you bet on that? I wouldn't..

    So that leaves us where? Simply put, in my opinion, it leaves us in a place that for us to be a major contender and/or juggernaut looking to win the title every year, we are going to have to abort the "under 189 plan", deal with the penalties, and go buy ourselves a starting pitcher or two, and spend the major dough to do it. If that is a guy like Hamels, so be it.


    But given the present situation of our kids, the past organizational history with kids like this, and the immediate future based on common sense, if we attempt to stay under 189, we are going to suffer on the field in terms of competitiveness.

    Is that 189 limit worth a few no playoff seasons to ownership? I fear we may be about to find out.
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  18. #293
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Why did we ever let Bartolo Colon go? he has a 2.62 era and has won three games.
    All the fat guys watch me & say to their wives, 'See, there's a fat guy doing okay. Bring me another beer. Mickey Lolich

  19. #294

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Messerwhitescooter View Post
    Why did we ever let Bartolo Colon go? he has a 2.62 era and has won three games.
    2011, 2nd half:
    4.96 ERA, .298 BAA, 1.47 WHIP

    ERA:
    July: 3.82
    Aug: 4.85
    Sep/Oct: 5.96

    They thought he was done. He still might be... just wait a bit.

    Also, his 2012 starts have been against: SEA, SEA, SEA, LAA, CHW... not exactly potent offenses at this time.

  20. #295
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    2011, 2nd half:
    4.96 ERA, .298 BAA, 1.47 WHIP

    ERA:
    July: 3.82
    Aug: 4.85
    Sep/Oct: 5.96

    They thought he was done. He still might be... just wait a bit.

    Also, his 2012 starts have been against: SEA, SEA, SEA, LAA, CHW... not exactly potent offenses at this time.
    if i'm in the NYY front office, i do the opposite of what i *think*.

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    In my opinion, whether this is a catastrophic blow or not depends on mostly the owners now.

    In short, the goal has been to get under that 189 million threshold for 2014.
    But to do that, if we wanted to retain Cano and Granderson, the key was to have a cheap but awesome rotation, where the only mega millionaire was CC.

    The main cogs in that plan were Pineda, Hughes, Banuelos and Betances. Yes there are some secondary options like Mitchell, Phelps and Warren, but the 4 names mentioned above were the headliners.

    Hughes seems like a lost cause. As a starter, he had one half season of success. He is not a 20 year old prospect anymore, potential needs to be replaced with results. He could not get hitters out in the second half of 2010 because he did not have good secondary pitches. He could not get them out last year because he was out of shape and was not throwing hard. This year he has the pitches, the strength and the velocity, but he cannot get them out because he cannot locate.
    Maybe it's time to just say "he cannot get hitters out" without a qualifier. Is that certain? I don't know. but it's a valid question.

    Pineda gone for 2012 with a labrum tear. In reality, he'd miss the same amount of time with TJ surgery. But that operation is actually almost a guaranteed success. It's a 12-18 month absence, but once guys come back, they come back with gusto. This is different. It is a possibility Pineda will never throw in the mid to high 90's again. It is definitely realistic this injury ends any shot of him having the potential career we thought. It is even possible it ends his career outright. I suspect he'll be back at the major league level. But what he'll be, who knows? I suspect he will not be the top of the rotation Robin to CC's Batman.

    Betances seems to get further and further from the majors every single day. In 17 innings of minor league ball, he has walked 17 batters. His control is making him look more like the next Andrew Brackman than the next Yankee prospect.

    Even Manny Banuelos continues to struggle, his control is not getting better, although he is still young, and he now sits injured.

    It is possible that we sit here next year at this time and have Hughes coming off a stellar second half, Pineda throwing 96-98 off a mound, Betances and.or Banuelos coming off a stellar spring and starting to do well in our major league rotation. But would you bet on that? I wouldn't..

    So that leaves us where? Simply put, in my opinion, it leaves us in a place that for us to be a major contender and/or juggernaut looking to win the title every year, we are going to have to abort the "under 189 plan", deal with the penalties, and go buy ourselves a starting pitcher or two, and spend the major dough to do it. If that is a guy like Hamels, so be it.


    But given the present situation of our kids, the past organizational history with kids like this, and the immediate future based on common sense, if we attempt to stay under 189, we are going to suffer on the field in terms of competitiveness.

    Is that 189 limit worth a few no playoff seasons to ownership? I fear we may be about to find out.
    This is an excellent post, probably the most reasonable one I've read around here in the craziness of the last 24 hours. Except that there's one bright spot you neglected to mention: Ivan Nova.

  22. #297
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldee5 View Post
    This is an excellent post, probably the most reasonable one I've read around here in the craziness of the last 24 hours. Except that there's one bright spot you neglected to mention: Ivan Nova.

    The Nova situation is different because little was expected.
    He was not heralded as the next big thing. It seems as soon as you get on the Yankees radar, you are doomed. Nova was the exception that managed to fly under the radar literally until he got to the bigs..
    Maybe we'll catch a break and have others do that, but it is not a safe bet.
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  23. #298
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    2011, 2nd half:
    4.96 ERA, .298 BAA, 1.47 WHIP

    ERA:
    July: 3.82
    Aug: 4.85
    Sep/Oct: 5.96

    They thought he was done. He still might be... just wait a bit.

    Also, his 2012 starts have been against: SEA, SEA, SEA, LAA, CHW... not exactly potent offenses at this time.
    How the hell has he managed to face Seattle (or any team for that matter) three times already?

  24. #299

    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    How the hell has he managed to face Seattle (or any team for that matter) three times already?
    That whole start in Japan, have a week off thing.
    27 World Championships
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  25. #300
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 General Yankee Comments Thread

    I'm pretty sure the Yankees can't expect to win anything while have 60% of their starting rotation pitching like horsesh*t.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

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