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  1. #476
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    The perspective of that post is that productive outs are bad. They may be productive, but more important is that they're outs. I don't want players trying to hit outs of any kind.
    I hear that. But the reality is that they will make 27 of them in every game. Relying on the idea that they should swing for the fences every chance they get is simply not realistic. Nor is it a formula for success.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  2. #477
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    I hear that. But the reality is that they will make 27 of them in every game. Relying on the idea that they should swing for the fences every chance they get is simply not realistic. Nor is it a formula for success.
    I don't think that anyone, including the Yankee hitters, would disagree that the idea is to make hard contact every time up. (OK, maybe not Teixeira, who's decided that the idea is to pull every pitch in every situation.) Using productive outs as any kind of measure of success, in any context, is bad.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  3. #478
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I don't think that anyone, including the Yankee hitters, would disagree that the idea is to make hard contact every time up. (OK, maybe not Teixeira, who's decided that the idea is to pull every pitch in every situation.) Using productive outs as any kind of measure of success, in any context, is bad.
    So, hitting into a double play with the bases loaded and one out would be exactly the same as an RBI sac fly, according to that way of thinking.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  4. #479
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    A lot of people want Kevin Long fired and I can understand the reasons but I have yet to hear anyone say who replaces him. You can replace a hitting coach during the off season when there are other people out there but unless you plan to promote a guy from the Yankees minor league system you are not going to be able to offer the job to someone currently in that capacity for another team. Long is probably here for at least the rest of the season.

  5. #480
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    A lot of people want Kevin Long fired and I can understand the reasons but I have yet to hear anyone say who replaces him. You can replace a hitting coach during the off season when there are other people out there but unless you plan to promote a guy from the Yankees minor league system you are not going to be able to offer the job to someone currently in that capacity for another team. Long is probably here for at least the rest of the season.
    Here's one possibility:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chicago...0739--mlb.html
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  6. #481
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    So, hitting into a double play with the bases loaded and one out would be exactly the same as an RBI sac fly, according to that way of thinking.
    No, of course not. You're talking about results there, not intentions. I don't want players going up to the plate with the idea of making out, period.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  7. #482
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    I just have to say that, as a fan, watching this team lately has been so very frustrating.
    With few exceptions, they don't inspire confidence that they can score runs. If they have men on base, I find that I'm saying to myself "they won't score"..... and I don't remember the last season that I sensed this kind of futility.
    You know what? They're boring. No signs of life.

    I know Gardener is only one little guy, and certainly not a power hitter, and not even a .300 hitter, but for some reason his absence from the lineup has absolutely crippled this team.

    I know it will probably turn around somewhat, but it's been a while since I felt this ambivalent about my team. I'll always root for them, but I have a feeling I won't watch as many games.
    .Of all the things in life I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

  8. #483

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Gardner is huge for this team.

    Texs robbed homer hurt for sure. It could have been a patented Porcello meltdown had Kelly not caught that.

  9. #484
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    No, of course not. You're talking about results there, not intentions. I don't want players going up to the plate with the idea of making out, period.
    I think we're both talking about results. The swinging for the fences mentality has yielded very frustrating results. Outs are a reality of the game. Using them to your advantage is just one of the tools a team can use to win games. Unfortunately, they haven't won a single game this year when they haven't hit one over the fence. Perhaps a little more diversity in their offensive approach might yield better results.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  10. #485
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    I think we're both talking about results. The swinging for the fences mentality has yielded very frustrating results. Outs are a reality of the game. Using them to your advantage is just one of the tools a team can use to win games. Unfortunately, they haven't won a single game this year when they haven't hit one over the fence. Perhaps a little more diversity in their offensive approach might yield better results.
    In most cases, I'm not sure I think that it's a mental approach of swinging for the fences. I think they're always trying to make hard contact.

    As for not winning when they don't hit HR: remember, we don't know that until the game is over. If you want them to shorten up their swings and just meet the ball, they will lose some of the HR they do hit.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  11. #486
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    In most cases, I'm not sure I think that it's a mental approach of swinging for the fences. I think they're always trying to make hard contact.

    As for not winning when they don't hit HR: remember, we don't know that until the game is over. If you want them to shorten up their swings and just meet the ball, they will lose some of the HR they do hit.
    Not sure one thing necessarily leads to the other. Lots of great hitters have claimed that they just try to make good contact and the HRs will follow. I wouldn't be that worried about losing HRs anyway. I'd be more concerned about winning games. There are teams out there winning more games than we are with fewer HRs.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  12. #487

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Um, this "no wins without a home run" stat is being way overblown. Home runs are good, and it's really just an odd stat. It's not indicative of the team as a whole.

  13. #488
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Um, this "no wins without a home run" stat is being way overblown. Home runs are good, and it's really just an odd stat. It's not indicative of the team as a whole.
    You could make that argument after about 3 weeks or the first month. We are now into June, and they have yet to win a game in which they just simply moved runners along with singles or doubles.

  14. #489

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    You could make that argument after about 3 weeks or the first month. We are now into June, and they have yet to win a game in which they just simply moved runners along with singles or doubles.
    With the exception of Jeter, Gardner and maybe Martin/Chris, EVERYONE in our lineup is a power hitter. Why the hell should I care about singles/doubles? Cool, they're great. But the long ball gets the job done.

  15. #490
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    This Yankee team is loaded with big swingers, the object of the game is to score more runs then the opposition. How you score doesn't really matter, as long as you get the runs in. I guess the debate is trying to homer vs productive outs, all of this depends on the situation that's happening on the field, but there is times that a bunt is called for.

    Still i'm not sure that I agree with Joe at times when he looks to bunt, just like last night(to change the subject) I didn't agree with loading the bases, and bringing in a cold pitcher, that led to our demise! I thought it was a bad move, be careful but don't leave us without wiggle room.

  16. #491

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Somebody point out to me a yankee team that EVER won a WS without majority of its important post steason hits being homeruns. If this can't be done than the home runs reliability arguments are moot. Every Yankee championship team I've ever seen has been offensively built around getting people on base and hitting random isolated home runs.

  17. #492
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    For me the homerun is an always was the main reason that baseball was such an impressive game, it's the ultimate hit. From Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds, it's the homerun! Even so I like everything about hardball, from the rules of the game to the hitting and fielding, and the pitching...

    It's a team sport as well as an individual sport, it's the greatest sport ever. I like all the major sports!

  18. #493
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    Somebody point out to me a yankee team that EVER won a WS without majority of its important post steason hits being homeruns. If this can't be done than the home runs reliability arguments are moot. Every Yankee championship team I've ever seen has been offensively built around getting people on base and hitting random isolated home runs.
    It might be faster to point out opposing teams who ate our home run happy teams' lunches when it comes to postseasons of recent years. Look, I don't think the argument here has been to discourage home runs. It's simply that a disproportionate dependance on the long ball has resulted in disappointing and inconsistent results. Live by the HR, die by the HR.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  19. #494
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    Somebody point out to me a yankee team that EVER won a WS without majority of its important post steason hits being homeruns. If this can't be done than the home runs reliability arguments are moot. Every Yankee championship team I've ever seen has been offensively built around getting people on base and hitting random isolated home runs.
    Did you just start watching in the last 10 years? The teams from 1996-2000 were not built around hitting home runs. The 1998 team that won 114 games did not have a single 30 home run hitter.

  20. #495
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Um, this "no wins without a home run" stat is being way overblown. Home runs are good, and it's really just an odd stat. It's not indicative of the team as a whole.
    Totally, especially without any context. Did they lose all those games 1-0 because they refused to play punch-and-judy style or something?

  21. #496
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    And so that makes the argument invalid?

    This team performs well below its capability as soon as runners get on base. And most of our hitters are below their career BA's, regardless of the situation.

    If the hitting coach doesn't deserve criticism for that, then there's no point in even having a hitting coach. And if there's no point in having a hitting coach, then it's my prerogative to suggest that Kevin Long is doing nothing for this team.
    they were the best hitting team in the AL last year with RISP (122 sOPS+). Kevin Long got dumb this offseason I guess.

  22. #497
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by madjack View Post
    Did you just start watching in the last 10 years? The teams from 1996-2000 were not built around hitting home runs. The 1998 team that won 114 games did not have a single 30 home run hitter.
    That 1998 team hit 207 HR. Don't try to make it sound like they singled, bunted and productive-outed the opposition to death.

    That was a team for the ages. This team doesn't stack up, but neither did the '09 team.

  23. #498
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    It's not so much the HR stat that bothers me, but the (Teix) swing-for-the-fences mentality no matter what the situation, inning, score or pitch count that irks me.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  24. #499

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    It's not so much the HR stat that bothers me, but the (Teix) swing-for-the-fences mentality no matter what the situation, inning, score or pitch count that irks me.
    I thought he was hitting pretty well in Detroit. I missed the LAA series because I was on my honeymoon. He had a single up the middle, a robbed homer and some good shots. He looks a lot more comfortable now.

  25. #500
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Big win over Verlander but still went 1-11 with RISP. Also according to YES our 3-4-5 batters have the lowest combined batting average of any major league team.

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