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  1. #76
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Last season, as a team they batted .263. With RISP they batted .273.

    With runner on third and less than two out they batted .343.
    (because I don't know)
    How does that compare to the rest of the league/majors?
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  2. #77

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Regardless, that's not exactly horrible. They actually batted better with RISP.

  3. #78

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    (because I don't know)
    How does that compare to the rest of the league/majors?
    The AL avg was .258, the MLB avg was .255.

    I don't know where to find overall RISP numbers.
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  4. #79
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    Regardless, that's not exactly horrible. They actually batted better with RISP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    The AL avg was .258, the MLB avg was .255.

    I don't know where to find overall RISP numbers.
    So they were better than league average - which is encouraging.
    I guess, the more scoring opportunities they create, the more failure there will be.

    This season, I'm doing my best to not get frustrated with the offense. I'm not a big Long fan at all. But it's difficult to argue with the results of "Runs Scored". The Yankees are always at the top of the list.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  5. #80

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    I wish people would take your approach. This is a game literally based around failure. Seeing people get bent out of shape 7/10 times is frustrating. Because the 3/10 times is actually REALLY damn good for this game.

  6. #81
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    I wish people would take your approach. This is a game literally based around failure. Seeing people get bent out of shape 7/10 times is frustrating. Because the 3/10 times is actually REALLY damn good for this game.
    Listen... I was (and probably still) one of those people. It's frustrating to be spoiled with such talent on the team you root for. Sometimes, I expect too much. And that's saying something because I know how difficult the game is, having played for so long.

    I'm trying hard to change.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  7. #82
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SLURPEE View Post
    Offense has been overrated for years. Only year they looked complete was 09.
    So the one year they weren't overrated is the one year where they won it all. Hard to disagree with that logic.

  8. #83

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Listen... I was (and probably still) one of those people. It's frustrating to be spoiled with such talent on the team you root for. Sometimes, I expect too much. And that's saying something because I know how difficult the game is, having played for so long.

    I'm trying hard to change.
    Well, getting upset is fine. But saying that the team is a bust or attacking players like A-Rod or Tex (notoriously slow starter, and I am completely biased - he's my favorite) or Swish for NOT getting hits in those situation is just asinine. Yeah, I know it happens, but these guys are power hitters. If you'd rather have a slap hitter slap a single, fine. These guys are trying to drive in a lot of runs, they're going for doubles. I get annoyed, but the calling for heads I see (and it's not just here. Its worse elsewhere) is waaaaay over-reacting. Throw up numbers all you want at me, I don't care. I'm willing to bet that someone like Nick Swisher has a much better clue about what to do than ALL of us do. Unless one of us is actually Barry Bonds or something.

  9. #84
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    The AL avg was .258, the MLB avg was .255.

    I don't know where to find overall RISP numbers.
    If you use bbref.com, you can find them by clicking on the "seasons" tab up top, and then selecting AL or NL link for any specific season.

    Last year in the AL:

    BA w/ RISP = .259
    BA w/ RISP & 2 outs = .235
    BA w/ runner on 3rd < 2 outs = .325 (which is higher than I would have guessed)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...g=AL&year=2011

    I think there is a big dose of perception relative to reality when we talk about RISP woes. We remember games like last night where they had tons of baserunners and couldn't seem to plate anyone versus games where they actually hit with RISP. Also, this offense puts a lot of men on base, so naturally when they make outs they have a higher propensity to do so with ducks on the pond.

    It is confusing how some fans process that though. The other day someone was posting that they'd be less frustrated if they had less LOB even if they scored less runs. If they score enough to win your typical game, it's really hard to be overly critical of LOB.

  10. #85

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    If you use bbref.com, you can find them by clicking on the "seasons" tab up top, and then selecting AL or NL link for any specific season.

    Last year in the AL:

    BA w/ RISP = .259
    BA w/ RISP & 2 outs = .235
    BA w/ runner on 3rd < 2 outs = .325 (which is higher than I would have guessed)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...g=AL&year=2011

    I think there is a big dose of perception relative to reality when we talk about RISP woes. We remember games like last night where they had tons of baserunners and couldn't seem to plate anyone versus games where they actually hit with RISP. Also, this offense puts a lot of men on base, so naturally when they make outs they have a higher propensity to do so with ducks on the pond.
    Thanks. One day I'll figure out all the features at BBRef.
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  11. #86
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Thanks. One day I'll figure out all the features at BBRef.
    I hear that.
    I'm on that site all the time and can't use a tenth of the features.. Heck - I'm just learning how to use the fangraphs site!
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  12. #87
    Movin' on Bub's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Further along the thread someone will argue that the Yanks leave way too many men on base. I love that one, especially when the team is near the top in runs scored.
    Let the kids play.

  13. #88
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bub View Post
    Further along the thread someone will argue that the Yanks leave way too many men on base. I love that one, especially when the team is near the top in runs scored.
    Right, LOB is an issue if the team isn't scoring enough runs to be expected to win. It's like some people would prefer 4 runs with 3 LOB than 8 runs with 13 LOB.

  14. #89

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Last season, as a team they batted .263. With RISP they batted .273.

    With runner on third and less than two out they batted .343.
    But see, that's wayyyyy too general. Sure, they may have put up those numbers with runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, but what was the score in most of those situations? When are they getting those hits? That's the key. All too often the at bats would be "ugly" when the game was close.

    RISP is the same deal. When they hit, they all hit... but when they're battling in a close game, it all too often seems to be one of those 2-15 w/ RISP type games.

    It's easy to say "they always score lots of runs," and therefore draw the conclusion they're doing everything right. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. The problem with that is baseball is situational. When everyone is hitting and you're up 8-2 in the 7th inning, everyone seems to come through with those tack-on RISP hits. But when they're in a closely battled game, behind or ahead by a run or two, there were too many awful RISP games, just like last night's.

    I'm not saying it's every day, I'm not saying we have a bad offense. I'm saying that there are too many games (including playoff games) where we're in a close game and the "big boys" in the lineup fail to get runners in, and they seem to fail with strike outs and pop ups on big swings. One of the hallmarks of the 2009 team was success in those kinds of situations, and over the last couple seasons, it's been an issue in many losses.

    It's observational, and it's somewhat difficult to quantify with stats because the situations are so complex under which the game is "closely contested."

  15. #90

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    I just try to look at it like this: "It's a game based around failure. Don't expect too much"

  16. #91

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    I just try to look at it like this: "It's a game based around failure. Don't expect too much"
    It's not the failures that bother me. It's not the 70% of the time making an out that bothers me. It's the manner by which they fail. I see too many "ugly" outs with big swings in situations that call for a bit more bat control. Not all the time, but it occurs more often than it should.

    I'm not suggesting this is some obscene problem the Yankees face. It's just that they could be that much better if they just tweaked their 2 strike approach when the game situation calls for such a thing.

  17. #92

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    But see, that's wayyyyy too general. Sure, they may have put up those numbers with runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, but what was the score in most of those situations? When are they getting those hits? That's the key. All too often the at bats would be "ugly" when the game was close.

    RISP is the same deal. When they hit, they all hit... but when they're battling in a close game, it all too often seems to be one of those 2-15 w/ RISP type games.

    It's easy to say "they always score lots of runs," and therefore draw the conclusion they're doing everything right. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. The problem with that is baseball is situational. When everyone is hitting and you're up 8-2 in the 7th inning, everyone seems to come through with those tack-on RISP hits. But when they're in a closely battled game, behind or ahead by a run or two, there were too many awful RISP games, just like last night's.

    I'm not saying it's every day, I'm not saying we have a bad offense. I'm saying that there are too many games (including playoff games) where we're in a close game and the "big boys" in the lineup fail to get runners in, and they seem to fail with strike outs and pop ups on big swings. One of the hallmarks of the 2009 team was success in those kinds of situations, and over the last couple seasons, it's been an issue in many losses.

    It's observational, and it's somewhat difficult to quantify with stats because the situations are so complex under which the game is "closely contested."
    Whatever.
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  18. #93

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Whatever.
    Excellent response, thank you for respecting my post.

  19. #94

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Excellent response, thank you for respecting my post.
    It's not that-- I assure you.

    It's the fact that I've been drawn into this kind of BS argument before and it's not worth it.

    "Forget the numbers-- I remember it differently-- it's different when you watch the games!"

    So yeah-- whatever.
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  20. #95
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    It's not the failures that bother me. It's not the 70% of the time making an out that bothers me. It's the manner by which they fail. I see too many "ugly" outs with big swings in situations that call for a bit more bat control. Not all the time, but it occurs more often than it should.

    I'm not suggesting this is some obscene problem the Yankees face. It's just that they could be that much better if they just tweaked their 2 strike approach when the game situation calls for such a thing.
    I don't know. Seems like they have a similar number of ugly outs in non-RISP situations. I think someone (Coffe or False) posted stats that last year they weren't much different RISP v Non-RISP which would seem to be consistant. I also think they were 2nd in runs scored.


    Sure it is depressing when you have those games where they go 2/18 with RISP and we ted to recall those more but at the end of the season if RISP 7 non-RISP numbers are statistically close and they are in the top 3 in the AL in runs scored, I won't complain.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  21. #96

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    It's not that-- I assure you.

    It's the fact that I've been drawn into this kind of BS argument before and it's not worth it.

    "Forget the numbers-- I remember it differently-- it's different when you watch the games!"

    So yeah-- whatever.
    Okay, so because I disagree with you it's a BS argument. Got it.

  22. #97
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    But see, that's wayyyyy too general. Sure, they may have put up those numbers with runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, but what was the score in most of those situations? When are they getting those hits? That's the key. All too often the at bats would be "ugly" when the game was close.

    RISP is the same deal. When they hit, they all hit... but when they're battling in a close game, it all too often seems to be one of those 2-15 w/ RISP type games.

    It's easy to say "they always score lots of runs," and therefore draw the conclusion they're doing everything right. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. The problem with that is baseball is situational. When everyone is hitting and you're up 8-2 in the 7th inning, everyone seems to come through with those tack-on RISP hits. But when they're in a closely battled game, behind or ahead by a run or two, there were too many awful RISP games, just like last night's.

    I'm not saying it's every day, I'm not saying we have a bad offense. I'm saying that there are too many games (including playoff games) where we're in a close game and the "big boys" in the lineup fail to get runners in, and they seem to fail with strike outs and pop ups on big swings. One of the hallmarks of the 2009 team was success in those kinds of situations, and over the last couple seasons, it's been an issue in many losses.

    It's observational, and it's somewhat difficult to quantify with stats because the situations are so complex under which the game is "closely contested."
    I understand all of this - but remember, there's team in the other dugout too - trying to win a ball game.
    Usually, when the Yankees are in one of these "battles", it's because the other team is pitching well. Henceforth, it's more difficult for players to get hits.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  23. #98

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Okay, so because I disagree with you it's a BS argument. Got it.
    No, it's a BS argument because it's based on recollection and perception instead of, you know, facts.

    Show me some factual evidence and I may change my mind.
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  24. #99
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    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    But see, that's wayyyyy too general. Sure, they may have put up those numbers with runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, but what was the score in most of those situations? When are they getting those hits? That's the key. All too often the at bats would be "ugly" when the game was close.

    RISP is the same deal. When they hit, they all hit... but when they're battling in a close game, it all too often seems to be one of those 2-15 w/ RISP type games.

    It's easy to say "they always score lots of runs," and therefore draw the conclusion they're doing everything right. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. The problem with that is baseball is situational. When everyone is hitting and you're up 8-2 in the 7th inning, everyone seems to come through with those tack-on RISP hits. But when they're in a closely battled game, behind or ahead by a run or two, there were too many awful RISP games, just like last night's.

    I'm not saying it's every day, I'm not saying we have a bad offense. I'm saying that there are too many games (including playoff games) where we're in a close game and the "big boys" in the lineup fail to get runners in, and they seem to fail with strike outs and pop ups on big swings. One of the hallmarks of the 2009 team was success in those kinds of situations, and over the last couple seasons, it's been an issue in many losses.

    It's observational, and it's somewhat difficult to quantify with stats because the situations are so complex under which the game is "closely contested."
    The problem is observation bais. In games where they go 2-15 with RISP the outs look ugly because they made 13 of them. And the game was probably close because they failed with RISP.

    In games where they go 7-13 with RISP the ABs looked great but they won easily because well they over .500 with RISP in that game and had a ton of chances to.

    I think the problem is trying to take a something statistically significant away from a single game.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  25. #100

    Re: 2012 Offense Performance Thread

    Bravo, YT. What I think, but I lack the intellect to say it so eloquently.

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