2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

[YankeeFan1421]

Well, but I think 1) A-Rod would not be easy to get rid of and 2) assuming they keep him, he's going to have to go through an Ichiro like transition to becoming more of a good/supporting player than a star. He appears to be more of a 110-120 OPS+ guy who plays 120-130 games a year, vs. being one of the best hitters in the game. I am sure this hurts him and it's painful to watch, but if he's going to keep playing baseball he's going to have to accept a different role and status. And that's probably true wherever he plays.

yeah, but it's easier to do that somewhere else and not standing next to Jeter and listening to Yankee fans harangue him.

I agree it won't be easy. But the Yankees are effectively starting to eat his salary anyway and will continue to do so unless he somehow becomes a full time player next year. If his time against right handers will only decline (and there's no reason to think his production agains tthem will rise at this point), then he is at best a half time player.

earlier this year I said perhaps the Dodgers would take Tex in exchange for Loney (this was in April, months before the Red Sox trade). But if they can get some salary relief on the ARod deal, they could keep Tex and re-sign Cano long term.

He is not going to be here for five more years. One way or another, he will be gone within 2.

[YankeeFan1421]

I don't have any problem benching A-Rod. In fact, the lineup I made last night didn't have A-Rod in it. My problem, which is a huge problem, is the fact that Girardi singled out A-Rod instead of benching Swisher and/or Granderson along with him. There is not a reasonable argument to be made that says playing Granderson is a good idea. Now all the focus is on Alex and unjustifiably so.

A-Rod deserves some blame for this series, but Cano and Granderson deserve more in my opinion.

If it was a lefthander, I don't think ARod would sit. And it's harder to bench Granderson anyway, as he is a centerfielder and still is more likely to hit a home run at YS today than ARod.

[sweet_lou_14]

What a three-day stretch it's been for Joe Girardi, Alex Rodriguez, the whole team, and its fans.

I don't know how tonight is going to play out, but I do want to make one point. Pinch-hitting Ibanez on Wednesday night, and pinch-hitting Thursday night, were easy to debate because the results of each decision were known two minutes after we all became aware of the decision. The first made Girardi look like a genius; the second didn't work out and therefore, not surprisingly, has many more critics. I know, many people will say they hated Chavez pinch-hitting before they knew what would happen. No reason not to believe them. But that's not my point.

My point is that because we'll have to wait hours to see how this lineup pays off -- that includes all of the decisions that went into it, such as benching A-Rod, not benching Granderson or Swisher, etc. -- the debate has been fierce, some of the most animated and forceful arguments on all sides that we've seen on this forum in a long time. It's fascinating stuff.

Personally, I don't know what I think but my gut tells me this is a good lineup and I'm comfortable with it. But I can see all sides of the argument.

Just want to say we're all rooting for a win tonight above all else ... let's not forget that.

Be excellent to each other, and Go Yankees.

[wileedog]

I don't have any problem benching A-Rod. In fact, the lineup I made last night didn't have A-Rod in it. My problem, which is a huge problem, is the fact that Girardi singled out A-Rod instead of benching Swisher and/or Granderson along with him. There is not a reasonable argument to be made that says playing Granderson is a good idea. Now all the focus is on Alex and unjustifiably so.

A-Rod deserves some blame for this series, but Cano and Granderson deserve more in my opinion.

Why is it so hard to understand we don't have an OFer with a .908 OPS against righties sitting on the bench like we do at 3rd? If Arod's name wasn't Arod this move would be a no brainer.

[Carsten Charles]

Why is it so hard to understand we don't have an OFer with a .908 OPS against righties sitting on the bench like we do at 3rd? If Arod's name wasn't Arod this move would be a no brainer.

Why is it so hard to understand that Granderson is a liability defensively and cannot even make contact right now? Gardner, at the very least, will provide way better defense and he can't possibly be worse offensively.

[2JAY]

I know what the potential holds for Granderson, but to me I am not convinced that he will even make contact let alone possibly hit a HR. I would have gambled, and I realize what the potential numbers show for Curtis, and put Suzuki in CF. I thought it was worth the gamble yesterday, putting Ibanez bat into the line-up against Saunders, and I do not think that that Granderson adds anything to the offense at this point except the possiblity of more bad ABs.

[YankeeFan1421]

Why is it so hard to understand that Granderson is a liability defensively and cannot even make contact right now? Gardner, at the very least, will provide way better defense and he can't possibly be worse offensively.

I can't see that comparasion. Granderson hit 43 home runs this year. Gardner barely played.

Chavez and Arod promise the same basic level of production, particularly against right handers. Granderson remains far more likely to provide power than Gardner, who hasn't even played centerfield in three years.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

yeah, but it's easier to do that somewhere else and not standing next to Jeter and listening to Yankee fans harangue him.

I agree it won't be easy. But the Yankees are effectively starting to eat his salary anyway and will continue to do so unless he somehow becomes a full time player next year. If his time against right handers will only decline (and there's no reason to think his production agains tthem will rise at this point), then he is at best a half time player.

earlier this year I said perhaps the Dodgers would take Tex in exchange for Loney (this was in April, months before the Red Sox trade). But if they can get some salary relief on the ARod deal, they could keep Tex and re-sign Cano long term.

He is not going to be here for five more years. One way or another, he will be gone within 2.

Problem is, I can't imagine any other team giving meaningful salary relief for A-Rod. While he can be a decent player now (not right now, but over the course of a year) at a ridiculous cost, he's going to become a $20 million/year albatross at the back end. Hopefully they can find some kind of creative way to get out of this, but I don't see how it won't be ugly.

[wileedog]

Why is it so hard to understand that Granderson is a liability defensively and cannot even make contact right now? Gardner, at the very least, will provide way better defense and he can't possibly be worse offensively.

I think there is a better chance of Granderson walking into a chance HR into right than Gardner who hasn't played all year contributing much offensively.

While I might have played Gardner too, I certainly in no way think playing a guy with 40 HRs this year over a guy who might not hit that many in his carer with 31 whole ABs this entire season is a fireable offense worth the amount of lineup-rage being thrown around.

[JSG]

re starting CG, you need him if only for the D, and not cool to put it on Brett under these circumstances. it does raise the Q, tho -- if Brett can't really play, why wasn't Dickerson put on the roster ?? Now obviously, per wileedog, Chavez's stats make the substitution a no-brainer as soon as you step back from the A Rod circus. Dickerson's not really a correlate for the OF. But he might have been the only viable option if it's clear CG remains lost in space at the plate. Just a dissilusioned hypothetical bitch. Step lively, now, move on !!

[Carsten Charles]

I can't see that comparasion. Granderson hit 43 home runs this year. Gardner barely played.

Chavez and Arod promise the same basic level of production, particularly against right handers. Granderson remains far more likely to provide power than Gardner, who hasn't even played centerfield in three years.

Granderson cannot make contact. He's not going to provide anything.

[YankeeFan1421]

Granderson cannot make contact. He's not going to provide anything.

I think he will today. mark it down.

[ThePinStripes]

Id much rather bench Granderson, play Ibanez in the field and DH Arod or Chavez. JMO.

Arod has been bad, but Granderson is beyond lost at the plate. At least Arod isn't swinging at pitches 2ft out of the strikezone and striking out on 3 pitches repeatedly (averages 3.8 p/PA) .

Arod has 2 hits vs 1 for granderson (and Arod had several good hard hit balls that got caught), 2 walks vs. 1, double the hits, etc.

Granderson has been batting below the Mendoza line since JULY

[spikeowenfan]

I loved the decision to sit Arod for Chavez, but hitting Ibanez against the lefty there instead of PH Arod might be riding the hot streak a little too much.

[1936-1939JoeNLou]

And that's why you dont bench granderson!

I told you all so.

[Mr Coffee]

And that's why you dont bench granderson!

I told you all so.

Yeah, but you say a lot of things..

[JSG]

Granderson cannot make contact. He's not going to provide anything.

You wuz saylin', bro ??!!

[1936-1939JoeNLou]

Yeah, but you say a lot of things..

Let's not bring the Red Sox thing up , please.

[Mr Coffee]

Let's not bring the Red Sox thing up , please.

*stands down*

/for now

[Carsten Charles]

You wuz saylin', bro ??!!

Here to eat crow.

[False1]

I loved the decision to sit Arod for Chavez, but hitting Ibanez against the lefty there instead of PH Arod might be riding the hot streak a little too much.

I was fine with that, but how does he not PH A-Rod for Chavez with a LH reliever?

[b_joseph]

You had your fun..now remember to play #13 tomorrow.

[sweet_lou_14]

Girardi made the right moves, and the Yankees advance.

What a week it's been for him.

[Torre Must Go]

Gutsy series by the manager with a heavy heart. Good for him. Hopefully Cano/A-Rod/Swisher/Granderson make Girardi look smarter and hit early and often in the ALCS

[2JAY]

Good job by Joe keeping Granderson in the line-up as he did in fact run into one. And that is why I am not a ML manager because I would have sat Curtis and would have been wrong.