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  1. #1776
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    2JAY's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    For all the flak that Joe is getting, at some point the Yankee players themselves have to be held accountable for this collapse.

  2. #1777
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    They will win 93 or 94 games this season with an aging roster that was ravaged by injuries. According to many of you Giradi cost the team about 30 or 40 wins with his managing (LOL). I would love to know the names of the managers who would have won more games than Giradi is going to win with this flawed roster. Much of the criticism in this thread is not rational. The other day someone was complaining that Giradi is "clueless" because he played Nunez. What that poster failed to mention is Nunez has helped the team win several games since he's been recalled, including 2 against Baltimore. Of course those facts didn't fit the narrative that this man who has been in professonal baseball for over 30 years and was the preferred catcher of some great pitchers knows less about baseball than the posters on this thread (Again LOL).
    Ah, yes, was beginning to wonder when you'd make an appearance with the same old shtick.

    What that poster failed to mention is Nunez has helped the team win several games since he's been recalled
    Yea, I can see how .219/.234/.344 slash to go along with putrid defense has won this team "several" games this month.

    "knolwedgeable fan base"
    Irony (LOL)

  3. #1778

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Just curious, how are players "held accountable" for a team's "collapse" or poor performance?

    Their contracts generally depend on individual performance, don't they? For instance, the Yankees would not be bringing Jones back because of his second half failure, regardless of the team's success or failure. Their decision on how much to offer Swisher depends on their projections for him as an individual player. Etc.

  4. #1779
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    Just curious, how are players "held accountable" for a team's "collapse" or poor performance?

    Their contracts generally depend on individual performance, don't they? For instance, the Yankees would not be bringing Jones back because of his second half failure, regardless of the team's success or failure. Their decision on how much to offer Swisher depends on their projections for him as an individual player. Etc.
    I am talking about their performance on the field. If the team is doing poorly, like not hitting with RISP, just maybe instead of every Joe move that he makes being studied like the Invasion of Normandy, maybe instead it is the players themselves who should be blamed.

  5. #1780
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    The only effective way for a team to really hold players accountable is for them to blow up the team and either let them walk via free agency or trade them away
    help feed the hungry:

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  6. #1781
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    I am talking about their performance on the field. If the team is doing poorly, like not hitting with RISP, just maybe instead of every Joe move that he makes being studied like the Invasion of Normandy, maybe instead it is the players themselves who should be blamed.
    It's not as if the roster is littered with major talent. There's quite a bit of crap floating around and expecting most of these guys to turn it on is a bit unfair. You can blame guys like ARod/Granderson/Tex, but that's about it really. Girardi doesn't deserve to shoulder most of the blame, but he hasn't helped his cause either.

  7. #1782
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by enozlac View Post
    Matchups are great sometimes but how about going by gut feelings and going against the grain once and a while instead of trying to manage via a textbook.
    HEY !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Young Steinbrenner View Post
    great post I agree w everything u said
    100%

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIM 2002 View Post
    I keep trying to understand how, given Joba's inability since he has been back to not give up big hits, Girardi could take out Andy for Joba! All he had to do is remember how Andy has been getting out of jams!totally inexcusable, and depressing since I don't think Girardi's job is in jeopardy.
    HEY !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    .....The whole, "he's a rookie therefore he cannot possibly play in a pennant race" garbage is tiresome, but you can't even use that as an excuse when the guy doesn't even give Dickerson PT.

    I don't know if I want him replaced because they'll most likely wind up with a carbon copy. What I do know is that this guy can't manage worth squat.
    CHECK / I like Buck and also Francona. I like Girardi alot in certain ways, but it increasingly feels like a Robot with a broken chip keeps steering the ship towards the rocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Dickerson finally batted against a LHP on Wed. and got a hit. Why not let him play over Jones. And with 6 games to go can't Martin be out there now that he is hot? The Yankees offense was terrible again today but at least Joe could put the best possible lineup out there. Jones and Stewart should not have been out there.
    CHECK / I can see Stewart day after nite thing but not Jones -- especially on the great day Dickerson just had. (>> now to the bench >> "no good deed goes unpunished".)

  8. #1783
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    It's not as if the roster is littered with major talent. There's quite a bit of crap floating around and expecting most of these guys to turn it on is a bit unfair. You can blame guys like ARod/Granderson/Tex, but that's about it really. Girardi doesn't deserve to shoulder most of the blame, but he hasn't helped his cause either.
    Agree, A Rod and Granderson in particular have been horrendous. Cano and Swisher and Jeter and Ichiro and some great games from Ibanez and Martin too, but it's rarely all working together. Tex's absence has been huge.

    Girardi has no game feel at all. He continually lifts pitchers that are rolling for B pen matchups, and conversely lets sharding pitchers try to hit their pre scripted innings. What he did with Phil today is just what he's done with Freddy this yr and even Phil and AJ in the playoffs in years past. Twitchyness when not needed and lack of urgency when the ship's going down. Serenity now ...........

  9. #1784

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    I am talking about their performance on the field. If the team is doing poorly, like not hitting with RISP, just maybe instead of every Joe move that he makes being studied like the Invasion of Normandy, maybe instead it is the players themselves who should be blamed.
    I didn't think you were talking about their off field habits.

    So I guess all you meant by holding the players "accountable" is using their poor performance to explain a bad record rather than assigning responsibility for a bad record to the manager.

    Fair enough, but it is assumed that managers sometimes have an effect on players' performance in all sorts of way, not limited to game management. I don't know to what extent Girardi is responsible for the decline of this team's performance in the second half, but if I owned the team, I would at least consider the question.

  10. #1785

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Ah, yes, was beginning to wonder when you'd make an appearance with the same old shtick.



    Yea, I can see how .219/.234/.344 slash to go along with putrid defense has won this team "several" games this month.



    Irony (LOL)
    Maybe you should try watching the games because if you had you would know that Nunez has been a net plus to this team since he's been recalled. But then again this doesn't fit your narrative so I'm not surprised.

  11. #1786

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    The only effective way for a team to really hold players accountable is for them to blow up the team and either let them walk via free agency or trade them away
    IMO, I think they need to do that from a baseball perspective, but from a business standpoint, they won't as it will kill their attendance and television ratings.
    Poor ownership can hold a baseball team down for years!

  12. #1787
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Maybe you should try watching the games because if you had you would know that Nunez has been a net plus to this team since he's been recalled. But then again this doesn't fit your narrative so I'm not surprised.
    Good work explaining how that triple-slash and his defense has actually benefited the team.

  13. #1788

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    So this thread stays dormant when his moves/non-moves work?

    Leaving Ibanez in against a lefty and PHing Nunez for Chavez both paid off. Good job, Joe.
    Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living.

  14. #1789

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    So this thread stays dormant when his moves/non-moves work?

    Leaving Ibanez in against a lefty and PHing Nunez for Chavez both paid off. Good job, Joe.
    I thought he left Hughes in a little too long ... he shouldn't have been allowed to give up that fifth run. But other than that, he did fine. In particular, he left in Logan to pitch around Escobar and get Adam Lind.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  15. #1790

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Good work explaining how that triple-slash and his defense has actually benefited the team.
    .400 w/RISP

    not that i buy into that crap
    Thank you for making me calm today, Brett Gardner

  16. #1791
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    So this thread stays dormant when his moves/non-moves work?

    Leaving Ibanez in against a lefty and PHing Nunez for Chavez both paid off. Good job, Joe.
    Im glad it worked out, but I still don't like the move. It's one of his gambler's fallacy moves.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  17. #1792

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Im glad it worked out, but I still don't like the move. It's one of his gambler's fallacy moves.
    I read somewhere that the alternative would have been a righty-righty matchup, as Farrell had someone ready in the bullpen. Seems like he made a deliberate call to stick with Ibanez and I was good with it at the time. It's refreshing to see him forego an opportunity to burn a player.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  18. #1793

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    So this thread stays dormant when his moves/non-moves work?

    Leaving Ibanez in against a lefty and PHing Nunez for Chavez both paid off. Good job, Joe.
    agreed

    sometimes the binder is correct
    RIP MR. STEINBRENNER

  19. #1794

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Lohud Yankees Blog@LoHudYankees Scratch that. Girardi just announced that Phelps will, in fact, start tomorrow.



    Good call, Joe

  20. #1795

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Shocked and pleased.

  21. #1796
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    I read somewhere that the alternative would have been a righty-righty matchup, as Farrell had someone ready in the bullpen. Seems like he made a deliberate call to stick with Ibanez and I was good with it at the time. It's refreshing to see him forego an opportunity to burn a player.
    If Ibanez was of value on defense I might agree, but ultimately Im sure someone was better than the 468 OPS he is rocking v. lhp.

    But again, Im glad it worked. We were due for some luck.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  22. #1797
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    Shocked and pleased.
    I kind of thought this would happen. Even Girardi's shown some frustration with Mr. Nova.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  23. #1798
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Congrats to Joe for making the right move about Phelps tomorrow.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  24. #1799
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain View Post
    Congrats to Joe for making the right move about Phelps tomorrow.
    Especially because I'm going to the game.

    Either way, I expect Joe to go to the bullpen early and often.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  25. #1800

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    I also applaud the choice of Phelps, but I wonder why he kept in CC for the 8th and even the 7th. Was it to get to 200 innings for him because he asked? CC may be needed on short rest if Andy has to pitch a 163d game for the Division and than CC has to go in a Wild Card game.

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