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  1. #1651
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    booney's my go to guy, he's been doing it all year... we gotta get him going, and i believe he'll turn it around


    What he actually says ...

    "Booney had had a ton of success against Span, and it didn't work. I didn't think his slider was as sharp today ... Booney had done a good job against Span in his career, and I just decided to go there."

  2. #1652
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Logan's "A ton of success" vs. Span turns out to translate to 0 for 4, with a walk. No room for "small sample size" in that binder, Joe?

  3. #1653
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    4 ab's apparently is > Span's season long success vs LHP's.

  4. #1654
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    There was no reason to pull Hughes there. None whatsoever. He looked fine in striking out Florimon and was at 99 pitches. He pitched a fine game and deserved the chance to finish the inning.

    Hughes > Logan

    Span also is hitting .300 vs lefties this year. Guess that wasnt in the binder.
    I don't know about "deserved" but there is no rational reason behind pulling him for Logan. If we had the 2011 D-rob or Mo so we could use Soriano- sure. You don't pull him for Boone though, Not good is not good-I don't give a damn if he throws with his left foot.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  5. #1655

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Girardi never manages by gut feeling or instincts.

    It's always by the book.

    Left handed hitter coming up means you have to grab someone who throws with their left hand to pitch to him, anything else is blasphemy.

    He would never do anything against the grain like bringing in a right handed RP to face a LHB. Scared the media would eat him alive.

  6. #1656
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by enozlac View Post
    Girardi never manages by gut feeling or instincts.

    It's always by the book.

    Left handed hitter coming up means you have to grab someone who throws with their left hand to pitch to him, anything else is blasphemy.

    He would never do anything against the grain like bringing in a right handed RP to face a LHP. Scared the media would eat him alive.
    It'll be interesting to see what he does tomorrow if Sabathia has to leave (relatively) early. He doesn't have that third lefty toy to fall back on any more, either.

  7. #1657
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Good lord that was worse than expected. He basically had Rapada (.528 OPS vs. LHH) watch that entire thing unfold.
    The sad thing is that even the YES announcers called this one, and it kind of encapsulates G's weak spots. The first is utter lack of game feel. Per rajah the big point for me is Phil was on the ropes but he came back strong with the second out K. Game should have been a shutout, time to lay it on your SP that had pitched very well to that point.

    Then it's the FFFF ing matchup thing when it makes no sense. Span is hitting over .300 vs LHPs and the dicey Boone Doggle isn't even a loogy. Per ten Rapada's your guy there. Incredibly, I think what tipped the scales and made Girardi's brain light up like a pinball machIne on special is the fact that FOUR (4) LHBs were due up in a row. Boone Doggle would then seem a better fit and could even survive a PH and STILL be surrounded by LHBs. Oh happy day. So it was kind of a triple whiff all rolled into one.

  8. #1658
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    So Span has slightly better numbers against lefties than he does against righties. What the hell is in that binder of Joe's anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    nude pictures of eduardo nunez
    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    I would have guessed Mitre.
    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    he had those laminated and framed a while back



    Classic.

    Amazing how fans all over saw that coming. Not joe.
    If they ask who was our star, give them 25 names, and if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees.

  9. #1659

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by enozlac View Post
    Girardi never manages by gut feeling or instincts.

    It's always by the book.

    Left handed hitter coming up means you have to grab someone who throws with their left hand to pitch to him, anything else is blasphemy.

    He would never do anything against the grain like bringing in a right handed RP to face a LHB. Scared the media would eat him alive.

    I can't believe this is still news. He's been doing it all season long. Apparently, anyone who can read and play the percentages can manage the New York Yankees. I'm done trying to convince people that Joe just isn't that good at his job. Although during tonight's episode, I give a big fat assist to Cashman. Hughes was running on empty and Joe's hand was forced. The man doesn't like to be second guessed so leaving Hughes out there could have ended badly and would have resulted in some undesired critisism. The bullpen is beyond dreadful, stocked full of spare parts and reclamation projects. If the starters can't go seven strong in the postseason, the yankees have no shot. I don't trust anyone not named D-rob or soriano.

  10. #1660
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Day game after a night game. Does that mean Jeter DH's and Nunez at SS today?

  11. #1661
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Replacing Hughes with Logan didn't work. However, it was not a bad move. I don't get all the hate on this one.
    Whatever you think...
    Well, you're wrong.

  12. #1662

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Criticism does not convey or imply hate.

  13. #1663

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    I can't believe this is still news. He's been doing it all season long. Apparently, anyone who can read and play the percentages can manage the New York Yankees. I'm done trying to convince people that Joe just isn't that good at his job. Although during tonight's episode, I give a big fat assist to Cashman. Hughes was running on empty and Joe's hand was forced. The man doesn't like to be second guessed so leaving Hughes out there could have ended badly and would have resulted in some undesired critisism. The bullpen is beyond dreadful, stocked full of spare parts and reclamation projects. If the starters can't go seven strong in the postseason, the yankees have no shot. I don't trust anyone not named D-rob or soriano.
    Actually, the bullpen has performed as one of the better pens in the league this year. You would not "trust" more than two guys in most pens. Some of our guys, especially Logan, are tired now, however.

    And Hughes was not running on empty. His velocity and movement were not down a bit and his pitch count was not up. Mauer hit the only ball out of the infield on him that inning.

  14. #1664
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    Criticism does not convey or imply hate.
    Replacing Hughes with Logan didn't work. However, it was not a bad move. I don't get all the criticism on this one.
    Whatever you think...
    Well, you're wrong.

  15. #1665

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Replacing Hughes with Logan didn't work. However, it was not a bad move. I don't get all the criticism on this one.
    Apparently Joe doesn't get it either.

  16. #1666

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    My only concern with Boone is that he's being waaay overused.
    Thank you for making me calm today, Brett Gardner

  17. #1667
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Replacing Hughes with Logan didn't work. However, it was not a bad move. I don't get all the criticism on this one.
    the vitriol and general disgust doesn't come from the bad result -- rather, it's that it was not only a very poor move in theory, it's just another straw in the sequence of maddening robotic matchup moves. i'll try to summarize the group mind on this one:

    -- the first issue, per rajah, is whether to leave phil in. i guess you could argue he'd had a tough inning, but so what. his pitch count was low, he'd been pitching really well (shoulda been a shutout but for the ibanez bungle), and was obviously pumped coming back to get the K for the second out. he was bending but wasn't gassed and didn't have diminished stuff. so both tactically and long term for phil's confidence, i wanted to keep him in the game. i think he earned that right, it was his game.

    -- OK, so let's then say you wanna take phil out, who do you bring in ?? G once again relied on the fools gold of SSS head to head stats, and brought in Boone Doggle, who isn't a loogy by any stretch with LHB BA's less than 10 points below RHB averages. AND you do it against a pretty good hitter with reverse splits !!!! even the YES announcers said Span was hitting over .300 vs LHPs this year !!! and it's also not like G went "against the book" cause Logan had been pitching really great -- he's been both overworked and inconsistent, deepening the layers of mind-fuquedness turn by turn of the screw.

    -- NO, but wait -- why not bring in Rapada, a genuine loogy ?? his LHB BA's are pure splitsville and around 50 points lower than Boone Doggle's. so why, per tek, not bring this guy in if your presumed purpose is to maximize your chances of getting the out sans damage ?? well, here i'm afraid it gets even worse: -- and playing the same type of three dimensional chess that produced such landmark moves as the IBB to sean rodriguez first inning first game of the year -- he went with Boone Doggle given "the ton" of success head to head vs Span. That was FIVE (5) AT BATS !!!! in other words, it was an utterly pea-brained use of stats used to justify his a priori inner twitch.

    -- in addition, i'm assuming G was likely influenced by the fact that the Twinks had 4 LHBs in a row, and thinking "long term" -- always a feared instinct when the situation is decidedly short term -- and Boone Doggle would be able to survive any interim PHs and still stay on board to surf all the other LHBs. of course, to quote the great general Maximus, if you're in the game that long, you're in Elysium and already dead !! details, details .........

    in short, he's getting bashed as the move was kind of a cluster-fuque of Girardi-isms on pen management. avoid game feel at all costs -- so let's leave pitchers in past their expiration date (Freddy, AJ (moment of silence), you name it) if they're scripted for an inning. Phil was pitching like an ace and IMO that should have factored in. Instead, it was another botched journey into matchupland against a hitter w reverse splits and picking not only the wrong pitcher, but doing it for the wrong reason, namely the SSS of 5 prior ABs in the face of a season of stats and common sense.

  18. #1668
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    So this is more of a general hatred/critcism (use the word that best suits your feelings) of Girardi's moves since he became the manager than hatred/critcism (use the word that best suits your feelings) of the particular move last night.

    I can understand that. Logan is Girardi's go to guy when the perfect plan can not be used (i.e. Starting Pitcher gracefully moves through 7 stellar innings, followed by Robertson in the 8th and Sori/Rivera - formerly- in the 9th).

    Last night should not have been a surprise to anyone.
    Whatever you think...
    Well, you're wrong.

  19. #1669
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    What's frustrating is it was 2 outs in the 7th. Get the third out and I would pretty much guess with D Rob and Soriano for the 8th and 9th that the Yankees would win.
    The way Hughes was pitching he deserved to face one more batter. Would Joe have pulled CC or Kuroda in the same situation? And if you are going to pull Phil for a LHP why not at least bring in the true one batter lefty, Rapada. Did it matter that there were 4 lefty batters coming up? Had Logan got Spam out he was not going to stay in the game and pitch the 8th inning.
    For me the 7th inning has become the hardest inning to watch in a close game. That's when Joe is most likely to go into mix and match mode.

  20. #1670
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSG View Post
    the vitriol and general disgust doesn't come from the bad result -- rather, it's that it was not only a very poor move in theory, it's just another straw in the sequence of maddening robotic matchup moves. i'll try to summarize the group mind on this one:

    -- the first issue, per rajah, is whether to leave phil in. i guess you could argue he'd had a tough inning, but so what. his pitch count was low, he'd been pitching really well (shoulda been a shutout but for the ibanez bungle), and was obviously pumped coming back to get the K for the second out. he was bending but wasn't gassed and didn't have diminished stuff. so both tactically and long term for phil's confidence, i wanted to keep him in the game. i think he earned that right, it was his game.

    -- OK, so let's then say you wanna take phil out, who do you bring in ?? G once again relied on the fools gold of SSS head to head stats, and brought in Boone Doggle, who isn't a loogy by any stretch with LHB BA's less than 10 points below RHB averages. AND you do it against a pretty good hitter with reverse splits !!!! even the YES announcers said Span was hitting over .300 vs LHPs this year !!! and it's also not like G went "against the book" cause Logan had been pitching really great -- he's been both overworked and inconsistent, deepening the layers of mind-fuquedness turn by turn of the screw.

    -- NO, but wait -- why not bring in Rapada, a genuine loogy ?? his LHB BA's are pure splitsville and around 50 points lower than Boone Doggle's. so why, per tek, not bring this guy in if your presumed purpose is to maximize your chances of getting the out sans damage ?? well, here i'm afraid it gets even worse: -- and playing the same type of three dimensional chess that produced such landmark moves as the IBB to sean rodriguez first inning first game of the year -- he went with Boone Doggle given "the ton" of success head to head vs Span. That was FIVE (5) AT BATS !!!! in other words, it was an utterly pea-brained use of stats used to justify his a priori inner twitch.

    -- in addition, i'm assuming G was likely influenced by the fact that the Twinks had 4 LHBs in a row, and thinking "long term" -- always a feared instinct when the situation is decidedly short term -- and Boone Doggle would be able to survive any interim PHs and still stay on board to surf all the other LHBs. of course, to quote the great general Maximus, if you're in the game that long, you're in Elysium and already dead !! details, details .........

    in short, he's getting bashed as the move was kind of a cluster-fuque of Girardi-isms on pen management. avoid game feel at all costs -- so let's leave pitchers in past their expiration date (Freddy, AJ (moment of silence), you name it) if they're scripted for an inning. Phil was pitching like an ace and IMO that should have factored in. Instead, it was another botched journey into matchupland against a hitter w reverse splits and picking not only the wrong pitcher, but doing it for the wrong reason, namely the SSS of 5 prior ABs in the face of a season of stats and common sense.
    Well said on all counts!

  21. #1671
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    So this is more of a general hatred/critcism (use the word that best suits your feelings) of Girardi's moves since he became the manager than hatred/critcism (use the word that best suits your feelings) of the particular move last night.
    well, for the reasons noted above, i think it's a pretty robust slam of the move last nite in particular as well. hey, it's not every day a manager prematurely removes a rolling SP, ignores reverse batting splits and lack of pitching loogy splits, and brings in the wrong pitcher for the wrong reason (fools gold of SSS head to head). that the move was also not a surprise just compounds the mind-fuque, but does nothing to detract from the critique of last nite's compound fracture.

    note: these games matter, and it is very disturbing that he keeps using bad theories to micromanage vs a steadier hand with a healthy dose of game feel.

  22. #1672
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    No problem with the Logan move...
    He just did not get it done..

    If Joe leaves Hughes in at 100 pitches for one more batter and Span rips one, the discussion today would have been how poor a move it was to leave Hughes in to face Span when Logan was ready..

    It was the right move... I would have done the same thing. Logan had two days off... He just didn't have it..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  23. #1673
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Replacing Hughes with Logan didn't work. However, it was not a bad move. I don't get all the hate on this one.
    Right move, bad result. Move on.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  24. #1674
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSG View Post
    the vitriol and general disgust doesn't come from the bad result -- rather, it's that it was not only a very poor move in theory, it's just another straw in the sequence of maddening robotic matchup moves. i'll try to summarize the group mind on this one:

    -- the first issue, per rajah, is whether to leave phil in. i guess you could argue he'd had a tough inning, but so what. his pitch count was low, he'd been pitching really well (shoulda been a shutout but for the ibanez bungle), and was obviously pumped coming back to get the K for the second out. he was bending but wasn't gassed and didn't have diminished stuff. so both tactically and long term for phil's confidence, i wanted to keep him in the game. i think he earned that right, it was his game.
    He was at 99, had thrown 26 in the inning and went to 3-2 on at least 2 batters one of which bailed him out swinging at ball 4.

    -- OK, so let's then say you wanna take phil out, who do you bring in ?? G once again relied on the fools gold of SSS head to head stats, and brought in Boone Doggle, who isn't a loogy by any stretch with LHB BA's less than 10 points below RHB averages. AND you do it against a pretty good hitter with reverse splits !!!! even the YES announcers said Span was hitting over .300 vs LHPs this year !!! and it's also not like G went "against the book" cause Logan had been pitching really great -- he's been both overworked and inconsistent, deepening the layers of mind-fuquedness turn by turn of the screw.

    -- NO, but wait -- why not bring in Rapada, a genuine loogy ?? his LHB BA's are pure splitsville and around 50 points lower than Boone Doggle's. so why, per tek, not bring this guy in if your presumed purpose is to maximize your chances of getting the out sans damage ?? well, here i'm afraid it gets even worse: -- and playing the same type of three dimensional chess that produced such landmark moves as the IBB to sean rodriguez first inning first game of the year -- he went with Boone Doggle given "the ton" of success head to head vs Span. That was FIVE (5) AT BATS !!!! in other words, it was an utterly pea-brained use of stats used to justify his a priori inner twitch.

    -- in addition, i'm assuming G was likely influenced by the fact that the Twinks had 4 LHBs in a row, and thinking "long term" -- always a feared instinct when the situation is decidedly short term -- and Boone Doggle would be able to survive any interim PHs and still stay on board to surf all the other LHBs. of course, to quote the great general Maximus, if you're in the game that long, you're in Elysium and already dead !! details, details .........
    Logan is simply a better pitcher than Rapada who is a true loogy. I'm sure Joe was thinking 4 lefties, Logan gets this guy and he starts the next inning,

    in short, he's getting bashed as the move was kind of a cluster-fuque of Girardi-isms on pen management. avoid game feel at all costs -- so let's leave pitchers in past their expiration date (Freddy, AJ (moment of silence), you name it) if they're scripted for an inning. Phil was pitching like an ace and IMO that should have factored in. Instead, it was another botched journey into matchupland against a hitter w reverse splits and picking not only the wrong pitcher, but doing it for the wrong reason, namely the SSS of 5 prior ABs in the face of a season of stats and common sense.
    Again, Logan wasn't sharp and it blew up spectacularly but Phil was not pitching like an "ace" in that 7th inning against the bottom of a bad Twins lineup.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  25. #1675
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by -tz View Post


    What he actually says ...

    "Booney had had a ton of success against Span, and it didn't work. I didn't think his slider was as sharp today ... Booney had done a good job against Span in his career, and I just decided to go there."
    ..and Mauer was, what, 3-7 against him and drove in the decisive run. Truly a fool.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Replacing Hughes with Logan didn't work. However, it was not a bad move. I don't get all the hate on this one.
    Probably because Logan is awful.

    2. At what point does Clay Rapada start stealing some of the high-leverage matchup work away from Boone Logan? Logan has allowed runs — either his own or inherited — in four his last nine appearances with an overall 5.26 ERA (4.62 FIP) in 25.2 innings since the calendar flipped to July. Lefties are now hitting .235/.285/.361 (130 PA) off him this season while Rapada has held same-side hitters to a .190/.268/.260 line (113 PA). If nothing else, Boone probably just needs a breather. He’s appeared in 77 games (!) and seems to warm up even when he doesn’t get into the game.
    -RAB

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post

    Logan is simply a better pitcher than Rapada who is a true loogy.
    Guess he should start pitching like it then, yea?

    I'm sure Joe was thinking 4 lefties, Logan gets this guy and he starts the next inning,
    So why not go with the guy who gets lefties out at a better clip?

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