2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

[bomber999]

In fairness to Joe outside of D-rob 8 & Soriano 9, I'm not sure he had better options than Hughes who had been sailing prior to that inning which fell apart in a span of 6 pitches.

I'm not suggesting that the Yankees have shutdown, or even particularly reliable, middle relief. However, it was fairly observable that Hughes lost his command in the 5th and was fortunate to escape the inning. With the Yankees needing to win games, Hughes beginning to implode, and with their sluggers coming up (particularly with Hughes' proclivity toward giving up HRs), at the very least there should have been someone warmed up and coming into the game after Hughes gave up the leadoff walk in the 6th.

Hughes has simply not earned the right to stay in the game in such a situation. He is the embodiment of a mediocre starting pitcher.

[YankeeFan1421]

I don't have major issues with Girardi. I think he overmanages at times, and I think his vaunted handling of the bullpen has been made much easier by the fact that he has had the best closer of all time as the anchor until a few months ago.

But, overall, I think he's a good manager who knows how to play a winning hand.

That said, if the Yankees blow this ten game lead and then lose in a wildcard game, is it not time to take a serious look at him? Managers generally don't survive that kind of a collapse. Of course, Girardi has a ring, but overall his record would be pretty mixed to say the least. Two division titles in five years and what could only be descrbed as an historic collapse counterweight the WS ring pretty significantly. yes, these are 'yankee problems' as most franchises would be thrilled with a WS, two division titles and two Wild Cards in five years time.

But we do know the rules are different here...fairly or not. I think he'd be managing for his job in '13 if he doesn't either win this division or go deep into the playoffs.

[BroadwayBomber55]

I don't have major issues with Girardi. I think he overmanages at times, and I think his vaunted handling of the bullpen has been made much easier by the fact that he has had the best closer of all time as the anchor until a few months ago.

But, overall, I think he's a good manager who knows how to play a winning hand.

That said, if the Yankees blow this ten game lead and then lose in a wildcard game, is it not time to take a serious look at him? Managers generally don't survive that kind of a collapse. Of course, Girardi has a ring, but overall his record would be pretty mixed to say the least. Two division titles in five years and what could only be descrbed as an historic collapse counterweight the WS ring pretty significantly. yes, these are 'yankee problems' as most franchises would be thrilled with a WS, two division titles and two Wild Cards in five years time.

But we do know the rules are different here...fairly or not. I think he'd be managing for his job in '13 if he doesn't either win this division or go deep into the playoffs.

I just don't think Joe Girardi is going to last long as Yankees skipper. If he wins one more World Series ring as Yankee manager whether it's 2012 or 2013, then I think he should leave on top.

Because I really think we need a fresh face and new tactics to keep getting better in terms of adapting to the competition and I don't want to see Girardi staying one or two seasons too long like Joe Torre did.

[YankeeFan1421]

I just don't think Joe Girardi is going to last long as Yankees skipper. If he wins one more World Series ring as Yankee manager whether it's 2012 or 2013, then I think he should leave on top.

Because I really think we need a fresh face and new tactics to keep getting better in terms of adapting to the competition and I don't want to see Girardi staying one or two seasons too long like Joe Torre did.

Well...as much as I think he could be at a pretty signficant inflection point here if they don't win the division....if they win another World Series this year or next, he's not only not going anywhere, he's probably starting to think about a run at Cooperstown.

He's not going to get pushed out with two rings in four or five years.

also, while any relationship can erode over time, the dynamic of the larger than life Torre running into the egos of the Boss and Levine doesn't seem to be much of an issue here. Girardi isn't really a rock star type of manager or personality and seems to fit into the fold.

He also has toned it down a lot, it seems, from his time in Florida and in '08 here. At least on the surface, it doesn't seem as if he has issues with the press or his veterans.

[Art Vanderlay]

Outside of one month of the season, they've bssically been a. 500 team. I don't blame Girardi for everything that goes on, and injuries certainly haven't helped, but IF the Yankees miss out on the playoffs by a game or two, you can look at girardi as being the sole reason why. He's single handedly cost them 6 or 7 games trying to be cute. Now that the team is depleted, it would certainly be nice to have those games back.

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. Please provide me with the list of managers who would have won six to seven more games with this roster.

[False1]

I'm not suggesting that the Yankees have shutdown, or even particularly reliable, middle relief. However, it was fairly observable that Hughes lost his command in the 5th and was fortunate to escape the inning. With the Yankees needing to win games, Hughes beginning to implode, and with their sluggers coming up (particularly with Hughes' proclivity toward giving up HRs), at the very least there should have been someone warmed up and coming into the game after Hughes gave up the leadoff walk in the 6th.

Hughes has simply not earned the right to stay in the game in such a situation. He is the embodiment of a mediocre starting pitcher.

If every time a starter showed the type of signs Hughes did yesterday they got pulled after 5, you'd have a bunch of starters with 150 IP a season and a blown out bullpen.

Girardi is playing with half a deck right now. Hopefully A-Rod coming back, and then Tex makes a difference.

[bomber999]

If every time a starter showed the type of signs Hughes did yesterday they got pulled after 5, you'd have a bunch of starters with 150 IP a season and a blown out bullpen.

Girardi is playing with half a deck right now. Hopefully A-Rod coming back, and then Tex makes a difference.

Except it's not June, it's September; the Yankees don't have a large cushion, they were at risk of having a 10-game lead reduced to two in yesterday's game; and they had a hugely inconsistent pitcher who had lost command an inning earlier and gives up HRs at an intense clip, who was facing the Orioles' HR-hitting middle of the order. And no one is talking about removing every Yankee starter every day- you responded to a specific context and situation rather hyperbolically and with a very broad brush.

[mrmike98]

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. Please provide me with the list of managers who would have won six to seven more games with this roster.

I agree!!!

[Art Vanderlay]

If every time a starter showed the type of signs Hughes did yesterday they got pulled after 5, you'd have a bunch of starters with 150 IP a season and a blown out bullpen.

Girardi is playing with half a deck right now. Hopefully A-Rod coming back, and then Tex makes a difference.

And how can Hughes learn how to pitch deep into games if he's pulled at the first sign of trouble in the 6th inning with a pitch count in the 90's?

[bomber999]

And how can Hughes learn how to pitch deep into games if he's pulled at the first sign of trouble in the 6th inning with a pitch count in the 90's?

I would agree with you were this a game in June, as I stated above. The Yankees simply need to win games- it is crunch time. This is not the time for on-the-job training or to try to boost confidence. Hughes should have been out.

[LIYanks]

And how can Hughes learn how to pitch deep into games if he's pulled at the first sign of trouble in the 6th inning with a pitch count in the 90's?

During the game yesterday, they showed stats (era) of all Hughes' games. His ERA was hovering around 4.00 in the first four innings and then jumped to 4.60 in 5th and 6th inning. For the last three innings, his ERA dropped under 3.

I don't have the stats in front of me to do an in-depth analysis but on the surface, it seems that Hughes has trouble second time around the lineup unless he has all his pitches working. That's probably true for all pitchers. Yesterday Hughes didn't have good stuff and was lucky to only give up one run at the point.

When you are in a tight race like the Yankees are, you just can't let Hugues figure it out on the mound. Joe should've pulled him a bit earlier.

[texasyankee]

...........When you are in a tight race like the Yankees are, you just can't let Hugues figure it out on the mound. Joe should've pulled him a bit earlier.

I totally agree. Hughes was already showing signs of trouble the innning prior when he gave up that solo shot to Mark Reynolds.

Girardi shoulda pulled Hughes when there were 2 runners on & the hot-hitting Mark Reynolds was coming up to bat again. By that time Hughes had already given up another run.

For the life of me, I couldnt figure out what Girardi was waiting for....

[Art Vanderlay]

I totally agree. Hughes was already showing signs of trouble the innning prior when he gave up that solo shot to Mark Reynolds.

Girardi shoulda pulled Hughes when there were 2 runners on & the hot-hitting Mark Reynolds was coming up to bat again. By that time Hughes had already given up another run.

For the life of me, I couldnt figure out what Girardi was waiting for....

There were no outs in the 6th inning, your number 3 starter on the mound with a lead, and a bullpen that is two deep. Joe absolutely made the right call is trying to let Hughes work through it. Its not like the pitchers that came in after him were lights out. The strategy didn't work, thats basbeall you move on and hope dowm the road Hughes learns how to navigate a lineup when he's tiring.

[False1]

During the game yesterday, they showed stats (era) of all Hughes' games. His ERA was hovering around 4.00 in the first four innings and then jumped to 4.60 in 5th and 6th inning. For the last three innings, his ERA dropped under 3.

I don't have the stats in front of me to do an in-depth analysis but on the surface, it seems that Hughes has trouble second time around the lineup unless he has all his pitches working. That's probably true for all pitchers. Yesterday Hughes didn't have good stuff and was lucky to only give up one run at the point.

When you are in a tight race like the Yankees are, you just can't let Hugues figure it out on the mound. Joe should've pulled him a bit earlier.

Here's the stats, which seem to indicate the second time through he is absolutely more prone to the long ball.

1st time through: .259 / .305 / .417, 3.0 K/BB
2nd time through: .266 / .310 / .545, 4.3 K/BB
3rd time through: .262 / .312 / .488, 3.0 K/BB

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ear=&t=p#times

It's not about letting him figure it out. He was very effective coming into the 6th. Middle relief has been acceptable, but I just don't see subbing in Eppley or Joba or Lowe for that at bat as a no-brainer, or at a minimum not something to be used to imply that Girardi (rather than his depleted lineup) is single-handedly pissing this lead away with his decisions.

[geoffman]

Pinch hitting Granderson (even though it was for Martin) really grinds my gears. I was so irritated I posted it as a facebook status instead of in this thread as intended. I was liking the game Martin was having and Granderson strikes out way to much.

I am never one to criticize in game decisions to much but this one got under my skin. This was one time I definitely would have thrown that binder in the trash.

[Yankees1962]

Pinch hitting Granderson (even though it was for Martin) really grinds my gears. I was so irritated I posted it as a facebook status instead of in this thread as intended. I was liking the game Martin was having and Granderson strikes out way to much.

I am never one to criticize in game decisions to much but this one got under my skin. This was one time I definitely would have thrown that binder in the trash.

Girardi is doom whether he makes a move or not.

[geoffman]

Girardi is doom whether he makes a move or not.

Reading through this thread (and a few others) I would agree with that statement.

I just think he took the bat out of someone's hand who was having a decent game. Sure the numbers may have supported it but I wouldnt have done it especially with Rodney on the mound. The SO was inevitable.

[2JAY]

Reading through this thread (and a few others) I would agree with that statement.

I just think he took the bat out of someone's hand who was having a decent game. Sure the numbers may have supported it but I wouldnt have done it especially with Rodney on the mound. The SO was inevitable.

But the truth is, Joe has put faith in Martin and his .190 season all year long. I do not have a problem with Joe PHing for him there. My problem is with a Yankee offense that managed hits in only 3 innings today.

[mr.roy]

Pinch hitting Granderson (even though it was for Martin) really grinds my gears. I was so irritated I posted it as a facebook status instead of in this thread as intended. I was liking the game Martin was having and Granderson strikes out way to much.

I am never one to criticize in game decisions to much but this one got under my skin. This was one time I definitely would have thrown that binder in the trash.

I was thinking about that too. But it was Martin.
I mean, at least give me the Mendoza line before I start calling out JG on that.
I got a feeling he would have looked worse than Granderson.
Martin is hardly a better match against Rodney in any event.

[2JAY]

I was thinking about that too. But it was Martin.
I mean, at least give me the Mendoza line before I start calling out JG on that.
I got a feeling he would have looked worse than Granderson.
Martin is hardly a better match against Rodney in any event.

And the career stats don't really support either move as the sample size is too small for both players:
Granderson 0-3 against Rodney
Martin 0-3 in 4 ABs against Rodney

[mitch300]

I have never criticised Girardi on this site. However pitch hitting Martin for mister strike out made no sense. earlier in the season he was using martin as a pitch hitter yet he takes the player who had the most hits today(2) on the team and takes him out.

[Benefactor]

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. Please provide me with the list of managers who would have won six to seven more games with this roster.

Why are you moving the goal posts? This roster? So you're discounting injuries and blaming the roster for New York's second half collapse? That so called roster had a 10 game lead in the division at one point.

You completely whiffed on my original point that Girardi single-handedly cost the Yankees 6 or 7 games trying to be cute. You can't predict injuries, therefore, you shouldn't throw winnable games away like pitching Epply and Rapada in the ninth of one or two run game with Soriano and Robertson in the pen, or batting Pearce cleanup and Martin fifth because he doesn't want to bat two lefties together, or p!ssing the second game of a DH away at Fenway because he thought it was smart to bring in Wade in a one run game, and then waited until he completely shant his pants before replacing him.

And sure, I could give you a list of managers, but unless you took off your pinstripe glasses, you'd refute everyone so there's no point.

[2JAY]

I have never criticised Girardi on this site. However pitch hitting Martin for mister strike out made no sense. earlier in the season he was using martin as a pitch hitter yet he takes the player who had the most hits today(2) on the team and takes him out.

Martin and all of his .199 average at that. I just do not see how Joe can get any flak for today when the offense was almost non-existent except for one inning. And in 2 innings where the lead-off runner did get on base, that runner was immediately wiped out due to a DP. What makes no sense to me, is how a team of professional hitters can all be slumping at the exact same time.

[yanksftw]

Martin and all of his .199 average at that. I just do not see how Joe can get any flak for today when the offense was almost non-existent except for one inning. And in 2 innings where the lead-off runner did get on base, that runner was immediately wiped out due to a DP. What makes no sense to me, is how a team of professional hitters can all be slumping at the exact same time.

you won't see the answer to that in sabermetrics that's for sure

for folks that played the game on a competitive level they know that suckage can be contagious

[False1]

You completely whiffed on my original point that Girardi single-handedly cost the Yankees 6 or 7 games trying to be cute.

I don't buy this. And if you subscribe to this theory that managers decide that many games, what's on the other side of the ledger? How many games did his cuteness win?

While I've taken issue with some calls, and his lineups lately have been preposterous, Girardi is not the problem right now. It's the string of high-impact injuries and no one stepping up to fill the void, along with the pitching staff tailing off.