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  1. #626
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Oh I'm not accusing you of Monday morning QB, and I stated earlier I can understand why it would be questioned even before the result, but it's not a major offense at all in my opinion. The Yankees had an 87% chance of winning when Epply first entered the game. If Rapada executes the throw, it would have been darn near 100%. I think the proper perspective is that Girardi actually put the players in position to win. I'm not going to hold him accountable for an errant throw on a double play ball. And there's no certainty Robertson doesn't put a few on himself and then serve up that meatball to Viciedo anyway.
    spot on
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  2. #627
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    This article sums up my feelings on Girardi's use of the bullpen last night: http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/..._see_best.html
    1. If Girardi maintains reservations about Robertson's ability to pitch in back-to-back games, he shouldn't have appeared in last night's game.
    2. If Robertson's health remains an issue, he shouldn't have come off the disabled list.
    3. But If Girardi intended to look past all of that, Robertson should have started the inning.
    ...

    "Yeah, I feel fine," said Robertson, who clearly disagreed with how he was used. "I feel absolutely fine."
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  3. #628
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    And all three points ignore the point that while he wasn't unavailable, Joe was trying not to use him. That being said I have no problem not using him at all and the way he is pitching I have zero confidence the result would have been any different if he started the inning or not. He allowed the home run. Let's give him some of the blame too.
    Life is good!

  4. #629
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    And all three points ignore the point that while he wasn't unavailable, Joe was trying not to use him. That being said I have no problem not using him at all and the way he is pitching I have zero confidence the result would have been any different if he started the inning or not. He allowed the home run. Let's give him some of the blame too.
    Blame him for the home run but I think he had a better chance of getting the first two batters out. Then if he still gives up the homer its a 1 run game. I just do not like Rapada and Eppley in the ninth of a close game. If the Yankees are up 5 runs its different. Like using Wade with a 6 run lead on Tuesday. It was the right move even if Wade did end up giving up 4 runs.

  5. #630
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Blame him for the home run but I think he had a better chance of getting the first two batters out. Then if he still gives up the homer its a 1 run game. I just do not like Rapada and Eppley in the ninth of a close game. If the Yankees are up 5 runs its different. Like using Wade with a 6 run lead on Tuesday. It was the right move even if Wade did end up giving up 4 runs.

    Right now my confidence level in Robertson is not high at all that I have little/no confidence the results would have been any different. If a pitcher is a good pitcher he should be able to get the job done regardless of the situation. I personally would not have used Robertson at all.
    Life is good!

  6. #631
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    And all three points ignore the point that while he wasn't unavailable, Joe was trying not to use him. That being said I have no problem not using him at all and the way he is pitching I have zero confidence the result would have been any different if he started the inning or not. He allowed the home run. Let's give him some of the blame too.
    But that's actually one of the points of frustration called out in the article -- either Robertson is available or he is not available. Enough with this "trying not to use him" approach. If he is health enough to use with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs, then he's healthy enough to start the inning.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  7. #632
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    But that's actually one of the points of frustration called out in the article -- either Robertson is available or he is not available. Enough with this "trying not to use him" approach. If he is health enough to use with runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs, then he's healthy enough to start the inning.
    There is an inbetween it isn't either or. It's not a matter of being healthy, it's a matter of if it can be done try not to use him. If Rapada makes a good throw to second, then he wouldn't have been used. If Joe manages each game as if it's the seventh game of the World Series our pen would have been shot in May. Me, I wouldn't have used him at all but I can see Joe's reasoning.
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  8. #633
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    This article sums up my feelings on Girardi's use of the bullpen last night: http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/..._see_best.html
    "Yeah, I feel fine," said Robertson, who clearly disagreed with how he was used. "I feel absolutely fine."
    Love it. How does him saying that indicate he clearly disagreed?

  9. #634
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Love it. How does him saying that indicate he clearly disagreed?
    I know that on the YES postgame, Robertson when asked stated that he would have rather started the inning instead of coming in with runners on.

  10. #635
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    que the "How can Girardi start Warren" posts....3..2..1...
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  11. #636

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain View Post
    que the "How can Girardi start Warren" posts....3..2..1...
    Yankee fans are great fans when it comes to patience with young pitchers. They're about as bad as they say the Yankees are in developing pitchers.
    Okay Hal and Brian, I might be a sucker, but you got 3 more years to fix it!

  12. #637
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Yankee fans are great fans when it comes to patience with young pitchers. They're about as bad as they say the Yankees are in developing pitchers.
    I know, it's absurdly annoying. Just check out the Adam Warren thread.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  13. #638

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain View Post
    I know, it's absurdly annoying. Just check out the Adam Warren thread.
    I never understood why mediots say the Yankee fans are a great fanbase. I think they're lousy fans and have been known to be frontrunner fans at that.
    Okay Hal and Brian, I might be a sucker, but you got 3 more years to fix it!

  14. #639
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    I never understood why mediots say the Yankee fans are a great fanbase. I think they're lousy fans and have been known to be frontrunner fans at that.
    ....and whiners....it is very unmanly to whine as much as what I've seen this year on this board.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  15. #640
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain View Post
    ....and whiners....it is very unmanly to whine as much as what I've seen this year on this board.
    thanks for the lesson on how to be manly. Just so I'm tracking, is it macho to whine about the whining?
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  16. #641
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    thanks for the lesson on how to be manly. Just so I'm tracking, is it macho to whine about the whining?

    life is a paradox!
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  17. #642
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Yankee fans have nothing to whine about.
    Life is good!

  18. #643
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    And all three points ignore the point that while he wasn't unavailable, Joe was trying not to use him.
    Yeah, this is the (apparently non-obvious obvious) truth. He's trying to nurse D Rob back slowly after his DL stint. This is also (obviously) the proper long-term move. It's one thing to pull this long-term view stuff in September as he did in 2010, quite another with some justification in June. A two-out error lost the game, and the crytal ball musta been foggy rather groggy. Chill, lads, and be glad Torre's not burning out the pen.

  19. #644

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Girardi's doing a fantastic job overall. Just phenomenal. I mean it, I think he keeps getting better each year.

    That said, I admit to being upset Thursday night because I felt he gave away a game by getting too cute. Given that it's June and the team has a good lead in a very strong division after a red-hot month, it really shouldn't be that big a deal. What made it feel like a big deal at the time -- for me, and I suspect for other fans -- is the genuine worry about the rotation and the feeling that you don't want to risk wasting a good start from one of your top three starters knowing the steep drop-off to your bottom two starters. Until CC is back on the mound, you have to assume your rotation is three deep and make damn sure you treat wins and potential wins as precious commodities, not to be wasted. Until further notice, 2 games out of every 5 are coin flips for this team, at best. Friday night's game underscored this.

    If you think the above is too pessimistic, fair enough, but it captures how I felt Thursday night. Of course, I have the luxury of feeling that way (and voicing the feeling) because I'm just a fan, which is why I appreciate the even keel with which Girardi manages the team.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  20. #645
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    ^agreed 100% with the above post. Isnt a message board suppose to be about voicing frustrations and analyzing managerial moves that you may disagree with? I mean if this stuff isnt discussed...whats the point of even posting on the board? What else are we going to talk about?

    I kinda feel like thats why this board isnt as active as it once was. Alot of people have been pushed away because they get called out for "whining", when really they are just discussing in-game moves and voicing things they disagree with. Nothing wrong w that IMO.

  21. #646
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Girardi's doing a fantastic job overall. Just phenomenal. I mean it, I think he keeps getting better each year.

    That said, I admit to being upset Thursday night because I felt he gave away a game by getting too cute. Given that it's June and the team has a good lead in a very strong division after a red-hot month, it really shouldn't be that big a deal. What made it feel like a big deal at the time -- for me, and I suspect for other fans -- is the genuine worry about the rotation and the feeling that you don't want to risk wasting a good start from one of your top three starters knowing the steep drop-off to your bottom two starters. Until CC is back on the mound, you have to assume your rotation is three deep and make damn sure you treat wins and potential wins as precious commodities, not to be wasted. Until further notice, 2 games out of every 5 are coin flips for this team, at best. Friday night's game underscored this.

    If you think the above is too pessimistic, fair enough, but it captures how I felt Thursday night. Of course, I have the luxury of feeling that way (and voicing the feeling) because I'm just a fan, which is why I appreciate the even keel with which Girardi manages the team.
    I feel the same way as you. Had Sabathia been pitching on Friday than Thursday's moves would not have bothered me as much as they did. While the Yankees are not going to win every game started by Hughes, Nova and Kuroda they really have to try to win at all costs any of those games if they have a lead by the 8th inning at least untill CC comes back. And if Joe was going to use D Rob anyway in the ninth he should have started the ninth inning. It's true that Rapada's error was the main cause of the loss but he should not have been out there in the ninth inning of a close game.

  22. #647

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    ^agreed 100% with the above post. Isnt a message board suppose to be about voicing frustrations and analyzing managerial moves that you may disagree with? I mean if this stuff isnt discussed...whats the point of even posting on the board? What else are we going to talk about?

    I kinda feel like thats why this board isnt as active as it once was. Alot of people have been pushed away because they get called out for "whining", when really they are just discussing in-game moves and voicing things they disagree with. Nothing wrong w that IMO.
    It's comments like people calling others "internet GMs" & whatnot that I find amusing. Then the same people will go on & critique something about the Yankees, and end up being hypocrites. Last I checked, none of us are qualified to critique anything MLB related because noone has the skillset. But we're fans & that's what fans do. Just like people criticize politicians, music, & movies/tv.

  23. #648
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    It's comments like people calling others "internet GMs" & whatnot that I find amusing. Then the same people will go on & critique something about the Yankees, and end up being hypocrites. Last I checked, none of us are qualified to critique anything MLB related because noone has the skillset. But we're fans & that's what fans do. Just like people criticize politicians, music, & movies/tv.
    Nope we're all amateurs. Calling out a manager for in-game decisions....is just...being a fan. I dont see whats wrong with it. Obviously you can cross a line and come across as the type who's a know it all or is always negative. I certainly dont consider myself that. I just get annoyed when I totally disagree with something Girardi does, come in here and post about it, and have to see myself get called out for that. I just dont understand that. You can disagree, thats fine...lets discuss it. Thats part of why a board exists. Its what I do with my friends all the time. I just dont get the "holier then thou...I'm a better fan then you are because I never complain" people who come in here and immediately have to say people whine and denounce their fandom because they are voicing frustrations. I saw the same crap in the Warren thread last night. Dude gives us 6 in 2.1....people are going to be upset w that. Then you have the "this is why Yanks fans are bad, they have no patience" type people show up to try to scare everyone away. As if everyone was saying Warren should be DFA'd immediately or something.

  24. #649

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    Nope we're all amateurs. Calling out a manager for in-game decisions....is just...being a fan. I dont see whats wrong with it. Obviously you can cross a line and come across as the type who's a know it all or is always negative. I certainly dont consider myself that. I just get annoyed when I totally disagree with something Girardi does, come in here and post about it, and have to see myself get called out for that. I just dont understand that. You can disagree, thats fine...lets discuss it. Thats part of why a board exists. Its what I do with my friends all the time. I just dont get the "holier then thou...I'm a better fan then you are because I never complain" people who come in here and immediately have to say people whine and denounce their fandom because they are voicing frustrations.
    It usually seems to be the elder statesmen of the board calling out the younger fans for stupid reasons just because we weren't alive to suffer through the sh*tty years like they did.

  25. #650
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    It usually seems to be the elder statesmen of the board calling out the younger fans for stupid reasons just because we weren't alive to suffer through the sh*tty years like they did.
    Spot on. Same thing with the GT's here. They used to be awesome...I used to go in there all the time. Sure you had your annoying posters there who would be negative 100% of the time and act like the season was over after every loss...but there were many good posters there who simply analyzed the game and were frustrated when things were going bad, but also positive when they went well. Because of a certain group who didnt want ANY criticizing and critiquing (god forbid we show emotion and get upset when the team is losing!)...the good posters are gone. Now its a ghost town in there. Its a shame because it used to be a good place to discuss the game w/people as passionate as you were.

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