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  1. #476
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I think Art is low on what Swisher will get but I think you are on the high end. I think something in the middle a 3 or 4 year deal with a ~$12.5M AAV seems like what he'll get. He's younger and less injury prone but not as good as Carlos Beltran who got 2/$26M from the Cards last year.
    Yeah, probably.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  2. #477

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    lol what?

    His WAR has been fantastic every year for 7 straight years, save the one year he crashed in Chicago under Ozzy and they were stupid enough to trade him to us for Betimet
    Year/ WAR/ Value
    2006 3.9 $14.6
    2007 3.9 $15.9
    2008 1.3 $3.6
    2009 3.2 $14.2M
    2010 4.1 $16.4M
    2011 3.8 $17.0M

    You think he's going to get signed for a 2/$20 or 3/$30 deal?

    He's going to get an AAV around $14 or $15 for 4-5 years. He's a great player.
    A great player? Hasn't played in one All-Star game his entire career? Anyone thats give him a five year deal with an AAV at 15 million is a fool, just like the Nationals were foolish for giving Werth the deal he got.

  3. #478
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    I like Swisher but no way is he worth "Werth" money (no pun intended). For that matter, Werth should have never received "Werth money".
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  4. #479

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    I like Swisher but no way is he worth "Werth" money (no pun intended). For that matter, Werth should have never received "Werth money".
    Is he worth Werth cash to Cash?
    27 World Championships
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  5. #480
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    A great player? Hasn't played in one All-Star game his entire career? Anyone thats give him a five year deal with an AAV at 15 million is a fool, just like the Nationals were foolish for giving Werth the deal he got.
    Is that really how you judge how good a player is?

  6. #481

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoVaughnEatsAlot View Post
    Is that really how you judge how good a player is?
    There is no metric that can be used to define Swisher as a "great" player. Swisher was never a great player, isn't a great player, and will never be a great player. And anyone that pays him the type of money you are suggesting will come to regret it.

  7. #482
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Is he worth Werth cash to Cash?

  8. #483
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Gotta love Jeter bunting first and second no outs.
    DFA ARod.

  9. #484
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    Gotta love Jeter bunting first and second no outs.
    Situationally, it wasn't a terrible move. That is, if you can score with RISP.
    If they ask who was our star, give them 25 names, and if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees.

  10. #485

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    Gotta love Jeter bunting first and second no outs.
    The way this team has been hitting? As much as I question Girardi, it's a good move at that point. Jeter has been hitting a lot of balls on the ground lately, and in a low-scoring, 1 run game, you need to force the issue. Jeter is about as likely to hit into a DP as get a base hit in that situation, the way he's been swinging as of late. And 70% of the time he's going to make an out, and chances are good that the out would be unproductive even if it wasn't a DP, either advancing no runners or only advancing 1 runner.

    It's the right move. I'm far more concerned with the management/coaching in light of their RISP struggles. I'd love to see the whole staff fired, sans Rothschild and Pena.

  11. #486
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    Situationally, it wasn't a terrible move. That is, if you can score with RISP.

    It's stupid, it's always stupid. I like Joe G because his BP management is light years ahead of Torre but his obssession with bunting is crazy.

    Girardi sees first and second no outs and says - can we squeeze accross one. I'm thinking - can we blow this game open.
    DFA ARod.

  12. #487

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    It's stupid, it's always stupid. I like Joe G because his BP management is light years ahead of Torre but his obssession with bunting is crazy.
    No, it's not always stupid. Despite the overall numbers that show that a bunt "loses out" to swinging away in general with a good hitter at the plate, it fails to consider the tenor of the game, or the tenor of a team's offense. Our tenor SUCKS right now. You have to force the issue when the team can't score runs on its own. These are human players, and the mental aspect of the game has a very significant impact on the numbers. The metrics fail to reveal those kinds of variances in the overall scheme of things.

    In case you hadn't noticed, in the games where Jeter doesn't bunt and we don't hit home runs, we're not scoring/winning those games either.

  13. #488
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    It's stupid, it's always stupid. I like Joe G because his BP management is light years ahead of Torre but his obssession with bunting is crazy.

    Girardi sees first and second no outs and says - can we squeeze accross one. I'm thinking - can we blow this game open.
    They had several opportunities to blow it open and failed to do so. That's been the story all year long. I didn't go into the reasoning, but I think AuroraBomberalis captured it well. Jeter has been pounding the ball into the ground a lot the last few weeks.
    If they ask who was our star, give them 25 names, and if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees.

  14. #489
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Do not think it was a bad move. Despite leading the league in hits Jeter has not been great with RISP. Since Jeter tends to hit a lot of ground balls there is a good chance of a DP that kills the inning. We would not be complaining about Jeter bunting if the players behind him could get a hit or even a SF with second and third.

  15. #490
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    They had several opportunities to blow it open and failed to do so. That's been the story all year long. I didn't go into the reasoning, but I think AuroraBomberalis captured it well. Jeter has been pounding the ball into the ground a lot the last few weeks.
    Understood, but he's also leading the league in hits for god's sake. Christ, what other manger says - yeah guy's hitting .335 and leading the league in hits, lets bunt him with two on no one out.

    I'm well aware of Jeter and the DP - sorry it's just stupid to bunt right there.
    DFA ARod.

  16. #491
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    Understood, but he's also leading the league in hits for god's sake. Christ, what other manger says - yeah guy's hitting .335 and leading the league in hits, lets bunt him with two on no one out.

    I'm well aware of Jeter and the DP - sorry it's just stupid to bunt right there.
    Jeter leads the league in hits but he has 19 RBI's and 5 of those came via his 5 home runs. He probably has been worse with RISP than A Rod or Tex considering his batting average.

  17. #492

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    Understood, but he's also leading the league in hits for god's sake. Christ, what other manger says - yeah guy's hitting .335 and leading the league in hits, lets bunt him with two on no one out.

    I'm well aware of Jeter and the DP - sorry it's just stupid to bunt right there.
    Leading the league in hits means nothing when you're struggling or in a slump.

    Even if Jeter is hitting well, it's a 30% chance of getting a hit. That means a 70% chance of getting an out (or even two). Of those outs, many will be unproductive in moving the runners over.

    A bunt, on the other hand, is maybe what - 80%-90% successful at giving you 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, and even gives you a chance of getting a base hit to load the bases. You have to play the safe route, the smart route, when you are struggling like mad to score runs.

    Jeter is not hitting the ball well right now. It doesn't matter how many hits he has or what his season BA is. He's batting .262 over his last 14 games, with just 3 RBI.

  18. #493

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Jeter leads the league in hits but he has 19 RBI's and 5 of those came via his 5 home runs. He probably has been worse with RISP than A Rod or Tex considering his batting average.
    He hasn't had as many opportunities, though. His BA with RISP is .275. He actually leads all regulars in BA with RISP.

    Even so, he hasn't been hot. If he was as hot as he was earlier in the year, I'd say have him swing.

  19. #494
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    He hasn't had as many opportunities, though. His BA with RISP is .275. He actually leads all regulars in BA with RISP.

    Even so, he hasn't been hot. If he was as hot as he was earlier in the year, I'd say have him swing.
    This. Percentage wise it was still the right move.
    If they ask who was our star, give them 25 names, and if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees.

  20. #495
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Leading the league in hits means nothing when you're struggling or in a slump.

    Even if Jeter is hitting well, it's a 30% chance of getting a hit. That means a 70% chance of getting an out (or even two). Of those outs, many will be unproductive in moving the runners over.

    A bunt, on the other hand, is maybe what - 80%-90% successful at giving you 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, and even gives you a chance of getting a base hit to load the bases. You have to play the safe route, the smart route, when you are struggling like mad to score runs.

    Jeter is not hitting the ball well right now. It doesn't matter how many hits he has or what his season BA is. He's batting .262 over his last 14 games, with just 3 RBI.
    Would you bunt Grandy or ARod in same situation? Jeter has a higher OBP than both of them. We'll agree to disagree. It's managing defensively as far as I'm concerned.
    DFA ARod.

  21. #496

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    Would you bunt Grandy or ARod in same situation? Jeter has a higher OBP than both of them. We'll agree to disagree. It's managing defensively as far as I'm concerned.
    Yup. Problem is I'm not the manager so your point is irrelevant. Jeter is a good bunter and even at his age has the speed to put pressure on the defense. But if I was the manager, those guys would know how to bunt, just for that type of situation - where EVERYONE is failing to do anything productive. The only difference between Jeter and those other two guys is that they're more likely to hit a HR, especially Grandy, whose slugging is much higher than Jeter.

    Unfortunately, managers don't make their "sluggers" bunt, even when they're struggling mightily. But that doesn't negate the fact that Jeter bunting in that situation is a good baseball play that should have easily resulted in a run or more.

  22. #497
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Granderson is the one who should have bunted, there was absolutely no reason not to do it there. The double steal made up for it, but the fact remains.

    Also, has Joe ever considered a suicide squeeze against a bad fielding team like the Tigers in a situation like that. May well have won the game last night if he had Cano try one.

  23. #498

    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    I remember before the season an opposing scout in SI said Girardi/Yankees bunt way too much and how it costs them. I don't mind bunting in certain situations, depending on how hot/cold the hitter is, how fast/slow the runners on base, home/road, the score, etc. I hated Jeter's sac bunt because we had momentum there with our first two guys on and a 2-0 count on a very good hitter. It was successful and may have been called by Jeter himself, but this team couldn't get a situational hit in this game and obviously for most of the season and didn't later in the 9th inning as well. I probably would've swung away with Jeter there and hope for a big inning and he doesn't risk a potential DP. This team is almost incapable of sac flies and 2 RBI hits with 1 or 2 out.

    And good job by Girardi defending his hitting coach last night. Umpiring is worse than ever. The Laz Diazez, Bob Davidsons, Joe Wests of the world need to be removed from the game.

  24. #499
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheStraw View Post
    Granderson is the one who should have bunted, there was absolutely no reason not to do it there. The double steal made up for it, but the fact remains.

    Also, has Joe ever considered a suicide squeeze against a bad fielding team like the Tigers in a situation like that. May well have won the game last night if he had Cano try one.
    To date in his 5 years as Yankees manager Girardi has attempted just one sucide/safety squeeze. Joe like the bunt play but not when someone is on third base.

  25. #500
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    Re: 2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Joe Torre had a win at all cost mentality, as if players were batteries. Girardi over worries about a players health, and he's by the book. Girardi is not a gut feeling manager, he believes in percentages, and what should be. He is from the old school(JG) with his managing moves, with free passes and sacrifices, meaning where and when to make those moves.

    In my opinion he is not a great manager, with his greatest weakness being his controlling of the starters. How long to leave a struggling pitcher in, and the same with relievers even though Larry Rothschild has made a some kind of difference.. Still as bad as Joe G could be in one game, is as good as he can be in the next. I will say this much, his job is a tough one this is no easy task!

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