2012 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

[CalYankeeFan]

Madden would have figured out a way not to have his pitchers give up all those home runs.

BAM!

You can draw x's and o's on the board all day long. The players still need to execute the play.

[Mr Coffee]

Dammit I meant Maddon.

Your point still stands.

[JSG]

I've come to the conclusion that Girardi is just a low IQ guy. He puts certain things on autopilot and never dares question it, and it seems to me he does that so his brain doesn't hurt too much. It's easy to out-manage someone like that

I actually think he's a reasonably smart guy. He is however incredibly stubborn. Good for stuff like keeping the staff and players rested, bad for overdoses of the "long term view" say down the stretch 2010 or even in the playoffs. I think it's game feel, not lack of intelligence, that's really his Achilles heel. Sometimes he'll toggle between myopic and often misplaced reliance on isolated stats or matchups, and then segway surrealistically into laissez faire mode (ripada/longoria, hanging w 5 WP freddy, etc.).

[Yankees1962]

I actually think he's a reasonably smart guy. He is however incredibly stubborn. Good for stuff like keeping the staff and players rested, bad for overdoses of the "long term view" say down the stretch 2010 or even in the playoffs. I think it's game feel, not lack of intelligence, that's really his Achilles heel. Sometimes he'll toggle between myopic and often misplaced reliance on isolated stats or matchups, and then segway surrealistically into laissez faire mode (ripada/longoria, hanging w 5 WP freddy, etc.).

I agree with you. Anybody that says Girardi isn't bright, doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Yanksfanintoronto]

I actually think he's a reasonably smart guy. He is however incredibly stubborn. Good for stuff like keeping the staff and players rested, bad for overdoses of the "long term view" say down the stretch 2010 or even in the playoffs. I think it's game feel, not lack of intelligence, that's really his Achilles heel. Sometimes he'll toggle between myopic and often misplaced reliance on isolated stats or matchups, and then segway surrealistically into laissez faire mode (ripada/longoria, hanging w 5 WP freddy, etc.).

Well Said!

[CalYankeeFan]

Dammit I meant Maddon.

Your point still stands.

Ohhh, that guy.


Just playin'

[sweet_lou_14]

At tonight's post-game press conference, the names "Stewy" and "Phelpsy" -- yes, "Phelpsy" -- were officially introduced to the media.

[Eldee5]

At tonight's post-game press conference, the names "Stewy" and "Phelpsy" -- yes, "Phelpsy" -- were officially introduced to the media.

Yeah, Joe's really on a roll tonight in about a two minute period we had Stewie, Phelpsy, Nuney and Booney.

Torre used to do this too. Is something really wrong with using first names? Drives me crazy.

[CalYankeeFan]

At tonight's post-game press conference, the names "Stewy" and "Phelpsy" -- yes, "Phelpsy" -- were officially introduced to the media.

Joe likes his pet names doesn't he?

Yeah, Joe's really on a roll tonight in about a two minute period we had Stewie, Phelpsy, Nuney and Booney.

Torre used to do this too. Is something really wrong with using first names? Drives me crazy.

I hate it to. It doesn't even have to be their first names...just call them by their real names. I always wondered how the players feel about it.

[TheStraw]

At tonight's post-game press conference, the names "Stewy" and "Phelpsy" -- yes, "Phelpsy" -- were officially introduced to the media.

[snapple]

Girardi is starting Ibanez in the OF and Swish as the DH...

[Yankee Tripper]

I don't really have a problem with that move. Very minor in the greater scheme of things. If raule get's 10-15 start in the OF so a regular gets a half day, so be it.

[primetime714]

I don't really have a problem with that move. Very minor in the greater scheme of things. If raule get's 10-15 start in the OF so a regular gets a half day, so be it.

Yea I agree. Not a big deal. Its early in the season and the Yankees don't have many off-days so Girardi is being creative with his rest schedule. Also with Boston coming up next this is the day to get some of your regulars some rest even if it is just a half day here and there.

[snapple]

You have a location pitcher in a small stadium..so you put the worse defender out there? And swish was at 1B last night. He could play the field.

[NelsonMuntz]

I would love to know why he went with Nunez over A-Rod to pinch hit in the 6th tonight.

[JL25and3]

Yeah, Joe's really on a roll tonight in about a two minute period we had Stewie, Phelpsy, Nuney and Booney.

Torre used to do this too. Is something really wrong with using first names? Drives me crazy.

I love "Nuney," but my favorite is still "Cervy."

[ieddyi]

I actually think he's a reasonably smart guy. He is however incredibly stubborn. Good for stuff like keeping the staff and players rested, bad for overdoses of the "long term view" say down the stretch 2010 or even in the playoffs. I think it's game feel, not lack of intelligence, that's really his Achilles heel. Sometimes he'll toggle between myopic and often misplaced reliance on isolated stats or matchups, and then segway surrealistically into laissez faire mode (ripada/longoria, hanging w 5 WP freddy, etc.).

Funny how in some ways Girardi is very different from Torre, but in some ways they are similar

Girardi is infinitely more prepared than Torre. The long term view you mention has prevented reliever burn outs that happened regularly during Torre's tenure

I agree about the game feel issues. Girardi tends to oversue stats - L/R splits and small sample sizes for matchups. Torres method was more push button- if it's ___ inning, we pitch_____

It's like they often ended up in the same spot, but Girardi always has well thought reasons for why he made that baffling move

All in all, I think the influence of the manager is overvalued. Pen management is one where they do make a difference and Girardi is clearly superior

Somehow it's more reassuring that there is a fact based thought process used by Girardi in making moves- even though they might seem to go to the "overthinking" side of things

[TheStraw]

One place where I think Torre exceeded Girardi is in the area of motivation/getting the most out of his players. He just doesn't seem to be able to push buttons and have his players respond the way a Maddon/Gibson/Scoscia does. It's almost like he is too passive, at least outwardly. Makes one long for the days of Billy Martin.

[ieddyi]

One place where I think Torre exceeded Girardi is in the area of motivation/getting the most out of his players. He just doesn't seem to be able to push buttons and have his players respond the way a Maddon/Gibson/Scoscia does. It's almost like he is too passive, at least outwardly. Makes one long for the days of Billy Martin.

IDK how much that factors during the regular season and his tenure was shortened by what was perceived as the playoff underperformance with the teams later on

Girardi seems like a guy who's gonna be honest w/ his players and not let stuff go unsaid. I think that's probably more beneficial than rah rah speeches

We can just watch Valentine's handling of the sawx if we need a dose of Billy Martin motivational "strategy"

[False1]

One place where I think Torre exceeded Girardi is in the area of motivation/getting the most out of his players. He just doesn't seem to be able to push buttons and have his players respond the way a Maddon/Gibson/Scoscia does. It's almost like he is too passive, at least outwardly. Makes one long for the days of Billy Martin.

I don't know. I liked Torre, but I think some of this was right place / right time. He had an immensely talented team, with a tremendous mix of elite young talent and veterans both on offense and on the pitching staff. When pieces were needed / available at the trade deadline to fill gaps, he got them. He had some of the best circumstances a manager could ask for, even one that works in a pressure cooker environment.

I'm not knocking him, it's clear most of his players really respected him and wanted to play for him, but I think winning begets loyalty and it's not as if he didn't err in this regard (e.g. dropping A-Rod to 8th in the playoffs, regardless of how feeble he looked, was incredibly poor management IMHO, burning out relievers, etc). I don't think that Girardi is lacking in ability to motivate players, but I could be missing something.

[NelsonMuntz]

IDK how much that factors during the regular season and his tenure was shortened by what was perceived as the playoff underperformance with the teams later on

Girardi seems like a guy who's gonna be honest w/ his players and not let stuff go unsaid. I think that's probably more beneficial than rah rah speeches

We can just watch Valentine's handling of the sawx if we need a dose of Billy Martin motivational "strategy"

Agreed. These are grown men with guaranteed multi million dollar contracts who have had a lot of success at the MLB level (for the most part). Yelling and screaming like a maniac is not an approach that would likely be well received. As far as the comparison to Torre, I can recall plenty of times during Torre's tenure where it looked like our guys were sleep walking through the game. It's a long season. Sometimes these guys are going to have a few clunkers along the way. Not to mention the 2004 ALCS debacle.

[wileedog]

One place where I think Torre exceeded Girardi is in the area of motivation/getting the most out of his players.

I don't think Torre had that at all in his last 5 or 6 years. In fact I think that there were a bunch of players who were clearly "his guys" and then the rest of the team was a huge detriment, and showed itself in the constant post season failures late in his tenure.

One of the best things Cash did post-Torre was bring in guys like Swish, CC, and even from a clubhouse perspective AJ. While the Core 4 were still there, it broke the old guys vs new guys mentality and I think it played a huge role in 2009, and Girardi was part of that.

[TheStraw]

Agree with all your points on the 2000's Torre. But I think at least early in his Yankee Tenure he held many closed door meetings and apparently, according to Verducci's book, was the master of the steely eyed look when he was dissatisfied with players. Girardi seems to never get angry at anyything.

[ieddyi]

Agree with all your points on the 2000's Torre. But I think at least early in his Yankee Tenure he held many closed door meetings and apparently, according to Verducci's book, was the master of the steely eyed look when he was dissatisfied with players. Girardi seems to never get angry at anyything.

Verducci was given access to the team by Torre and paid him back by painting him in the best possible light ( and Arod and many others in the worst possible who was it they outed as crying in the locker room? )

That steely eyed look was actually his eyes glazing over from Bigelow green tea overdose

We don't know what goes on in the clubhouse, but Girardi doesn't impress me as someone who'll let sloppy play and mental errors go uncommented

[hellonewman]

That steely eyed look was actually his eyes glazing over from Bigelow green tea overdose

I guess if Jack Benny could keep milking the "I'm cheap" routine for 50 years, we can keep on whipping this dead horse of a meme.