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  1. #76

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    I don't think the less hyped guys (Nova/Wang) succeeding and the ultra-hyped guys (Joba/Hughes) disappointing is any coincidence.

    The former two did not have to deal with the same constraints i.e. extreme inning limits, spontaneously skipping starts, constant mechanical tinkering as the latter two

    Make no mistake about it, prospect Joba and prospect Hughes WERE the real deal. The Yankees just have to stop over-managing their top pitching prospects.

    We're fine with hitting prospects, it's just that the last two hitters to garner much hype in our system were both traded. Jackson and Montero have bright futures though. Nick Johnson was excellent before the injuries were just too much

  2. #77
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    He looks like he has more stuff to be a capable starter then Hughes does

  3. #78

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DontTradeMontero View Post
    I don't think the less hyped guys (Nova/Wang) succeeding and the ultra-hyped guys (Joba/Hughes) disappointing is any coincidence.

    The former two did not have to deal with the same constraints i.e. extreme inning limits, spontaneously skipping starts, constant mechanical tinkering as the latter two

    Make no mistake about it, prospect Joba and prospect Hughes WERE the real deal. The Yankees just have to stop over-managing their top pitching prospects.

    We're fine with hitting prospects, it's just that the last two hitters to garner much hype in our system were both traded. Jackson and Montero have bright futures though. Nick Johnson was excellent before the injuries were just too much
    The less hyped pitchers had more time in the minors too to work on their craft. I still say if the Yankees didn't rush Hughes or Joba, both would've been more effective starting pitchers. If they only left them alone in the minors in 2007 and then brought them up mid-season 2008.

  4. #79
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    With the relative performances of Hughes and Phelps so far this season, i wouldn't be too surprised if Phelps was starting soon. Another couple (at a stretch a few) of starts like today , with Hughes' history and any delay with Andy and surely Phelps is next in line?

  5. #80
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Well, we'll see when the league gets some tape and scouting on him, but so far so good. Hard not to like what he's given out of the gate.
    Baseball is life;
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  6. #81
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DontTradeMontero View Post
    I don't think the less hyped guys (Nova/Wang) succeeding and the ultra-hyped guys (Joba/Hughes) disappointing is any coincidence.

    The former two did not have to deal with the same constraints i.e. extreme inning limits, spontaneously skipping starts, constant mechanical tinkering as the latter two

    Make no mistake about it, prospect Joba and prospect Hughes WERE the real deal. The Yankees just have to stop over-managing their top pitching prospects.

    We're fine with hitting prospects, it's just that the last two hitters to garner much hype in our system were both traded. Jackson and Montero have bright futures though. Nick Johnson was excellent before the injuries were just too much
    No we aren't. Our hitting prospects are years away from contributing except for the injured Romaine. No healthy prospect above A level has a shot at a regular role as a Yankee. It's as barren at the AA-AAA level as I have ever seen.

  7. #82

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    No we aren't. Our hitting prospects are years away from contributing except for the injured Romaine. No healthy prospect above A level has a shot at a regular role as a Yankee. It's as barren at the AA-AAA level as I have ever seen.
    I don't know enough about the system to say if I agree or disagree about it being "barren," but where exactly does this team have a need, or even an opening, for a hitting prospect? At DH? Maybe at C or RF in 2013?

    Look around the diamond, at every other position we have an all-star caliber player who's here for at least two more years, up to 5 or 6 in some cases.

    There's time for the minor league hitting to develop.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  8. #83

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Replace Hughes ASAP. You are better in every way.

  9. #84
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Some postgame comments from Phelps:
    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2012/04/14/postgame-notes-3/
    • Phelps certainly deserves to be patted on the back for his performance today. He gave the Yankees 5 1/3 innings, allowing only one run on one hit — a solo homer to Vernon Wells in the top of the fifth to make it 7-0. He talked about making the adjustment from being a starter to a reliever. “The biggest thing for me is that I can’t get all four of my pitches ironed out in the bullpen,” he said. “I’ve got to get my two – the fastball and the slider – going. And once the game gets going, try to feel the others out as much as possible.”
    • Phelps also spoke about what it was like facing his idol in Albert Pujols. Pujols was 0 for 3 against Phelps. “I’ve been rooting for him pretty much my whole life being from St. Louis, but he’s intimidating,” Phelps said. “You’ve got such a small margin of error, so I just go out there trying to bear down and make my pitches. I was pretty much leaving it in Russell’s hands. I wasn’t going to shake him. Whatever pitch he called, I was going to try and throw it with conviction.”
    I didn't realize that he was from St. Louis. I can't even imagine what must have been going through his mind as he was facing Pujols--and retiring him three times.

  10. #85

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    No we aren't. Our hitting prospects are years away from contributing except for the injured Romaine. No healthy prospect above A level has a shot at a regular role as a Yankee. It's as barren at the AA-AAA level as I have ever seen.
    I meant that our organization is good at developing hitting prospects in general.

    It's barren in the upper levels right now, but then again, we essentially converted Jackson and Montero into very useful players.

  11. #86
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    The post about seeing guys like Nova, Phelps, Wang having success in comparison to Joba and Hughes is quite fair. Joba should never have been put in the pen in the first place. He should have been left alone. I have no problem saying that had they left him alone, we'd have a very effective starter. Hughes' problems are different. He has one pitch: a 92mph fastball. That cutter was pointless, his curve is gone and he's never developed his change. I still think we need to give him time but he has now had over seventy starts at the major league level and questions must be asked.

    Of course, the bigger questions should be asked of the FO and management. Hughes was rushed and Joba was messed around. I truly hope they leave Banuelos alone until they have a spot for him in the rotation when they can give him a lot mod starts to find his feet. Doubt that will happen though.
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  12. #87
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Personally, I have never liked this idea of bouncing players between being starters and relief pitchers because with the way they are developed now, it's seems contradictory to train them one way and when they get to the Majors, then you completely change the outcome you've been building for.

    Not sure if it's a coincidence or not that Hughes and Chamberlain were bounced back and forth and Kennedy wasn't, and Kennedy's the one that has blossomed.

    As far as Phelps is concerned, he has a great presence on the mound. He looks comfortable and confident, two huge points in development of a young pitcher.
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  13. #88
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    No we aren't. Our hitting prospects are years away from contributing except for the injured Romaine. No healthy prospect above A level has a shot at a regular role as a Yankee. It's as barren at the AA-AAA level as I have ever seen.
    That lettuce is delicious.

  14. #89
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBamTino24 View Post
    Personally, I have never liked this idea of bouncing players between being starters and relief pitchers because with the way they are developed now, it's seems contradictory to train them one way and when they get to the Majors, then you completely change the outcome you've been building for.

    Not sure if it's a coincidence or not that Hughes and Chamberlain were bounced back and forth and Kennedy wasn't, and Kennedy's the one that has blossomed.

    As far as Phelps is concerned, he has a great presence on the mound. He looks comfortable and confident, two huge points in development of a young pitcher.
    Well said. I find it no coincidence that Kennedy is the only one of the three still pitching effectively in the rotation, albeit in the NL West. Hughes and Joba had what it took to be very effective starters for a long time and because of Torre, the impatience of our organisation and fans, we messed them both up.
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  15. #90

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBamTino24 View Post
    Personally, I have never liked this idea of bouncing players between being starters and relief pitchers because with the way they are developed now, it's seems contradictory to train them one way and when they get to the Majors, then you completely change the outcome you've been building for.

    Not sure if it's a coincidence or not that Hughes and Chamberlain were bounced back and forth and Kennedy wasn't, and Kennedy's the one that has blossomed.

    As far as Phelps is concerned, he has a great presence on the mound. He looks comfortable and confident, two huge points in development of a young pitcher.
    BamTino sighting!
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  16. #91

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The less hyped pitchers had more time in the minors too to work on their craft. I still say if the Yankees didn't rush Hughes or Joba, both would've been more effective starting pitchers. If they only left them alone in the minors in 2007 and then brought them up mid-season 2008.
    They did fill a need @ the time, but I don't know if spending m ore time in the minors would have helped.

    Hughes numbers there were historically good. It was just too easy for him and might have been counterproductive

    The same folks ( not you ) bashing the Yanks development system because Phil and Joba flamed out are on the other hand praising Phelps and Mitchell and Banuelos and Betances
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  17. #92
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    I don't know enough about the system to say if I agree or disagree about it being "barren," but where exactly does this team have a need, or even an opening, for a hitting prospect? At DH? Maybe at C or RF in 2013?

    Look around the diamond, at every other position we have an all-star caliber player who's here for at least two more years, up to 5 or 6 in some cases.

    There's time for the minor league hitting to develop.
    Swisher will be gone. If they want a $189. Million payroll then a cheaper alternative will be needed. So there is not time for hitting to develop as neither Mason Williams or Bichette jr will be ready.

    You need solid minor league hitting in case of injury and for mid season trades. The thought of Jack Cust in the outfield is frightening.

  18. #93

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Swisher will be gone. If they want a $189. Million payroll then a cheaper alternative will be needed. So there is not time for hitting to develop as neither Mason Williams or Bichette jr will be ready.

    You need solid minor league hitting in case of injury and for mid season trades. The thought of Jack Cust in the outfield is frightening.
    Come on, RF is one of the easiest positions on the field to find a cheap stopgap on a one-year deal. I understand the disappointment that the Yankees don't have major-league-ready hitters in their system right now, but that won't have nearly the impact on their success that you're implying.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  19. #94

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    say hello to tyler austin

    okay in 2014 maybe, and on the mariners, but hey
    always reasonable

  20. #95

    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Needs to be in the rotation, put Hughes in the pen.

  21. #96
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Swisher will be gone. If they want a $189. Million payroll then a cheaper alternative will be needed. So there is not time for hitting to develop as neither Mason Williams or Bichette jr will be ready.

    You need solid minor league hitting in case of injury and for mid season trades. The thought of Jack Cust in the outfield is frightening.
    Solid minor league pitching can also be used in mid-season trades, and the Yankees have an abundance of that.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  22. #97
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Solid minor league pitching can also be used in mid-season trades, and the Yankees have an abundance of that.

    That is true but doesn't change the fact that we haven't done a good job developing hitters.

  23. #98
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    That is true but doesn't change the fact that we haven't done a good job developing hitters.




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    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  24. #99
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    That is true but doesn't change the fact that we haven't done a good job developing hitters.
    And besides Mr. Muhozi's two strong points, the fact is that the Yankees focused on pitching for several years in the draft. It won't be long before the hitting improves... but in the meantime, we do have surplus arms to deal
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  25. #100
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    Re: 2012 David Phelps Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    And besides Mr. Muhozi's two strong points, the fact is that the Yankees focused on pitching for several years in the draft. It won't be long before the hitting improves... but in the meantime, we do have surplus arms to deal
    Has that focus paid off in your estimation?

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