2012 Robinson Cano performance thread

[Carsten Charles]

Someone had to drive him home. It's not like Ruth was on third base every time, and Gehrig hit 170 sac flys.

That's not the point. Gehrig had more chances to drive in runs since a guy with a .486 OBP hit in front of him as opposed to streaky Teixeira and his lowish OBP and Granderson with his bad OBP and 6 billion Ks. In addition to Granderson's low OBP, a lot of that OBP was singles, walks, or homers. He only had 22 COMBINED doubles and triples this season. That's abysmal. A lot of times a Cano single wouldn't score Granderson cause he'd only be on first.

Teixeira and Granderson were on base a combined 313 times minus home runs. Ruth himself was on base 269 times minus home runs. Gehrig had way more chances.

[kan_t]

149 OPS+, 148 wRC+, 8.2 bWAR, 7.7 fWAR

MVP type season

[35Knucklecurve]

149 OPS+, 148 wRC+, 8.2 bWAR, 7.7 fWAR

MVP type season

Unfortunately, Cabrera and Trout will still get most of the votes, IMO. Cabrera winning the Triple Crown and Trout having an amazing year as a rookie probably carries more weight with the voters than a guy who plays for the Yankees in a line-up that is a HR machine.

[freebubba]

That's not the point. Gehrig had more chances to drive in runs since a guy with a .486 OBP hit in front of him as opposed to streaky Teixeira and his lowish OBP and Granderson with his bad OBP and 6 billion Ks. In addition to Granderson's low OBP, a lot of that OBP was singles, walks, or homers. He only had 22 COMBINED doubles and triples this season. That's abysmal. A lot of times a Cano single wouldn't score Granderson cause he'd only be on first.

Teixeira and Granderson were on base a combined 313 times minus home runs. Ruth himself was on base 269 times minus home runs. Gehrig had way more chances.

Great point.

Add don't discount the inability of the #2 and # 3 hitters to get Jeter over into scoring position, either.

[1936-1939JoeNLou]

149 OPS+, 148 wRC+, 8.2 bWAR, 7.7 fWAR

MVP type season

Was this a better season than Pedroia's MVP campaign?

[False1]

That's not the point. Gehrig had more chances to drive in runs since a guy with a .486 OBP hit in front of him as opposed to streaky Teixeira and his lowish OBP and Granderson with his bad OBP and 6 billion Ks. In addition to Granderson's low OBP, a lot of that OBP was singles, walks, or homers. He only had 22 COMBINED doubles and triples this season. That's abysmal. A lot of times a Cano single wouldn't score Granderson cause he'd only be on first.

Teixeira and Granderson were on base a combined 313 times minus home runs. Ruth himself was on base 269 times minus home runs. Gehrig had way more chances.

But Gehrig also had the bat taken out of his hands a ton with walks, would have had far more HR hitting in a park with YS3's dimensions,etc. I don't really get what we're doing here. Gehrig wasn't an RBI machine simply because the bases were juiced every time he came up to the plate.

[teknetic]

Was this a better season than Pedroia's MVP campaign?

You're not being serious, but it's kinda hilarious how he's already had five seasons better than that "MVP" campaign.

[Carsten Charles]

But Gehrig also had the bat taken out of his hands a ton with walks, would have had far more HR hitting in a park with YS3's dimensions,etc. I don't really get what we're doing here. Gehrig wasn't an RBI machine simply because the bases were juiced every time he came up to the plate.

I agree. Gehrig was obviously a better player than Cano. I was just responding to someone that compared Cano's RBI numbers to Gehrig's RBI numbers, which is ridiculous to do in the first place.

[madjack]

I agree. Gehrig was obviously a better player than Cano. I was just responding to someone that compared Cano's RBI numbers to Gehrig's RBI numbers, which is ridiculous to do in the first place.

The only reason I brought 1927 Gehrig up is that the point was made that the hitters in front of Cano were hitting too many homers, and he had empty bases all the time. Gehrig had empty bases 60 times at least, not including the times the top of the order went down 1,2,3.

Obviously he had runners on base many, many times that year, took advantage of it, and drove in 175 RBI.

[Carsten Charles]

The only reason I brought 1927 Gehrig up is that the point was made that the hitters in front of Cano were hitting too many homers, and he had empty bases all the time. Gehrig had empty bases 60 times at least, not including the times the top of the order went down 1,2,3.

Obviously he had runners on base many, many times that year, took advantage of it, and drove in 175 RBI.

Gotcha. That's definitely not a ridiculous thing to do then. I should've read the rest of the thread.

[YankeeFan1421]

I agree. Gehrig was obviously a better player than Cano. I was just responding to someone that compared Cano's RBI numbers to Gehrig's RBI numbers, which is ridiculous to do in the first place.

I don't even know how anybody compares players today with players from the 20's and 30's. It's such a different game.

Babe Ruth was considered a giant at 6'2" and 215 lbs. he was playing against all white players, who by and large were part time athletes as most of them were carpenters and plumbers and whatever else during the offseason.

All we can really do is compare the difference between them and the rest of the league at the time. At which point, Babe Ruth and Gehrig are mind-blowingly dominant.

But what would they be today against a much larger, borderline global population to draw from, specialist relievers, advanced scouting, shifts, etc?

Who knows...I just can't compare Gehrig to Cano or anybody else today...it's a whole different game.

[Benefactor]

That's not the point. Gehrig had more chances to drive in runs since a guy with a .486 OBP hit in front of him as opposed to streaky Teixeira and his lowish OBP and Granderson with his bad OBP and 6 billion Ks.

You're talking about two different era's and I didn't read through this thread. Even though Gehrig may have had plenty of chances, he rarely stranded runners on base. And his Rbi totals came in far fewer games. Cano, on the otherhand, has had plenty of chances in spite of Teixeira's and Granderson's low OBP. In fact, Cano has batted with the third-most runners on base of any hitter in the majors, behind only Josh Willingham and Matt Holliday.

[Carsten Charles]

You're talking about two different era's and I didn't read through this thread. Even though Gehrig may have had plenty of chances, he rarely stranded runners on base. And his Rbi totals came in far fewer games. Cano, on the otherhand, has had plenty of chances in spite of Teixeira's and Granderson's low OBP. In fact, Cano has batted with the third-most runners on base of any hitter, behind only Josh Willingham and Matt Holliday.

That's a great stat. Where did you find that?

[Benefactor]

That's a great stat. Where did you find that?

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...-more-valuable

[Eldee5]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...eds-apologizes

A reporter for a North Carolina TV station that falsely accused New York Yankees second baseman Robinson Cano of failing a performance-enhancing drug test has publicly apologized.

Charlotte's WSOC-TV will also donate money to the Robinson Cano Foundation, according to Cano's agent, Scott Boras.

The station never reported the Cano accusations on the air, but one of its reporters, Dan Tordjman, tweeted Sept. 20 that he expected Major League Baseball to announce that Cano would be suspended. After Cano denied the charge, many media outlets subsequently reported on the story.

ESPN investigated the allegations but, after denials from top MLB and Yankees officials, as well as from Cano and Boras, did not find them credible enough to report.

On Thursday, WSOC apologized during its newscast, saying sorry to "Mr. Cano and any Yankee baseball fan for any embarrassment or inconvenience the tweet may have caused."

On Tordjman's Twitter account, he tweeted an apology, which in part read, "I shouldn't have posted false info about #Cano and afterward, I should've admitted it was false and apologized right away. I am very sorry."

Boras pursued the matter on behalf of Cano. The Robinson Cano Foundation benefits children with medical needs in the Dominican Republic.

"Journalists and media outlets have a standard of due diligence before they attempt to tarnish a great player and great person like Robinson Cano," Boras said by phone Thursday night. "I'm satisfied we were able to reach a settlement that will benefit a lot of Dominican kids."

[-tz]

Interesting story in the Wall Street Journal on Cano's "winter baseball boot camp."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...533614108.html

The days start early at Robinson Cano's winter baseball boot camp. Cano rousts his pupils out of bed as early as 5 a.m., just as the sun rises over his hometown of San Pedro de Macoris in the Dominican Republic. Most days, Cano wants to hit the track by 6:30 a.m., and woe to anyone who holds him up.

His students are universally shocked by the rigor. They are all major leaguers, and they thought they worked hard. Then they joined up with Cano.

"I was like, 'Wow. When do we finish?'" recalled Yankee infielder Eduardo Nunez. "And then he tells me we just got started. And then we did it again. Every day."

[ThePinStripes]

I was talking to a former co-worker last night, he said "Cano cannot shine Jeter's shoes" & this woman said "Cano is only on a hot streak."

Wow. It's always an "intangible" factor when discussing the two it seems. That's when I just bow out of the conversation.

I'd agree to that- Cano is on a hot streak. A multi-year hot streak.

[sweet_lou_14]

People should try to do a better job of separating their favorite player from who they think is providing the most value to the team.

Jeter is my favorite Yankee of this generation, and I take a lot of joy from how far above expectations he played this year, but that doesn't mean I would compare his production to Cano's. I don't think Jeter has ever had a year as good as Robinson Cano's 2012.

Being a super-fan of Mariano is easier because you don't have to worry about anyone disputing his position as all-time champeen of the world. With Jeter, as much as I'd like to say he's the super-awesomest baseball player of all time, he clearly doesn't belong in that discussion. So I settle for appreciating (and if necessary, defending) his status as one of the all-time Yankee icons, one of the two or three greatest shortstops ever, and one of the all-time great ambassadors for this team and for the game itself.

Jeter's stature in the history of the game is, IMHO deservedly, somewhat greater than his stature in the statistical record books. And it's OK to acknowledge that, as long as everyone gives him a fair assessment with full credit for just how excellent his on-field performance has been.

[awy]

jeter's offense at ss is certainly historic level. his defense is severely overrated. his overall status is rated fairly historically, but unfairly when compared to other great players of his generation.

for example, arod is a better ss than jeter.

[sweet_lou_14]

jeter's offense at ss is certainly historic level. his defense is severely overrated. his overall status is rated fairly historically, but unfairly when compared to other great players of his generation.

for example, arod is a better ss than jeter.

The phrase "great players" is the key here. A significant part of Jeter's "greatness" lies in his popularity -- not just the popularity that comes from being a handsome face and all that but also the popularity that comes from his style of play, respect for the game, and string of iconic on-field moments that distort the overall performance as calculated by objective analysis.

Flipwise and similarly, the "greatness" of a player like Manny Ramirez is diminished by what a clown he was. Manny's stature in the game is significantly less than it should be based on statistics alone.

[Mr Coffee]

jeter's offense at ss is certainly historic level. his defense is severely overrated. his overall status is rated fairly historically, but unfairly when compared to other great players of his generation.

for example, arod is a better ss than jeter.

Who overrates Jeter's defense? I think at this point everyone knows it is what it is- good hands-- bad range.

And I'm not so sure how great A-Rod would be at SS given that he hasn't played there in about 8 years or so.

[teknetic]

ARod was the best defensive SS in the game (Adam Everett was probably 1-1A) according to UZR (back when fangraphs started first tracking it).

[awy]

yea obviously i was talking in terms of career and peak ability.

[Mr Coffee]

yea obviously i was talking in terms of career and peak ability.

Oh. So 'was' a better SS instead of 'is'.

[YankeeFan1421]

jeter's offense at ss is certainly historic level. his defense is severely overrated. his overall status is rated fairly historically, but unfairly when compared to other great players of his generation.

for example, arod is a better ss than jeter.

I don't know how Jeter's defense can be considered 'overrated'. If anything, I think his defense is now 'underrated'.

There is no way he's one of the worst defensive shortstops in the league, despite the statements of many.