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  1. #1

    DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Just getting back to the forum and am asking the question that I originally joined to ask 2 years back. I was having a heated argument on the issue with a friend and wanted more opinions.

    I still do! I'm not an American League fan so I think my opinion is unbiased. My vote is for Ted and if there is any interest on this topic I will give my reasons.

    Thanx

  2. #2
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Ha,Ha picking a Red Sox over a Yankee on a Yankee site. Hope you're not a troll.

    But really except for the 56 game hitting streak, world series ring and gold glove if the award would have existed back then, I agree Teddy ballgames season was better than Joltin' Joes by nearly every meaningful measure.
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Ha,Ha picking a Red Sox over a Yankee on a Yankee site. Hope you're not a troll.

    But really except for the 56 game hitting streak, world series ring and gold glove if the award would have existed back then, I agree Teddy ballgames season was better than Joltin' Joes by nearly every meaningful measure.
    Thanks for your opinion Trip, 'tho it is a little ambiguous...let me assure you that I am a St. Louis Cardinal fan, dyed in the wool.

    Sorry that I must disagree with your 2 points: you can't blame Ted because the Yanks had a better team and won the Pennant....and as far as Joe winning the Gold Glove if there was one, I don't think that is a given. By his own admission his brother Dom was the superior fielder.

    So it boils down to pure hitting.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    Thanks for your opinion Trip, 'tho it is a little ambiguous...let me assure you that I am a St. Louis Cardinal fan, dyed in the wool.

    Sorry that I must disagree with your 2 points: you can't blame Ted because the Yanks had a better team and won the Pennant....and as far as Joe winning the Gold Glove if there was one, I don't think that is a given. By his own admission his brother Dom was the superior fielder.

    So it boils down to pure hitting.
    Sure writters have blamed players for not being on a better team in MVP voting since, well seemingly forever.

    Ok, maybe Joe D doesn't win the gold glove but the point was he's in the discussion. The only time Teddy ballgames defense is mentioned it's usually in the context of if he was one of the worst defensive left fielders in the game or not.

    As for pure offensive numbers let's see, Ted lead the american league in R, BB, AVE, OBP, SLG, HR, OPS, OPS+. Doesn't look like much of a contest.

    Dimaggio had an outstanding season in his own right but he lead the league in just RBI. Statsitaclly it is no contest who had the better offensive year.
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Sure writters have blamed players for not being on a better team in MVP voting since, well seemingly forever.

    Ok, maybe Joe D doesn't win the gold glove but the point was he's in the discussion. The only time Teddy ballgames defense is mentioned it's usually in the context of if he was one of the worst defensive left fielders in the game or not.

    As for pure offensive numbers let's see, Ted lead the american league in R, BB, AVE, OBP, SLG, HR, OPS, OPS+. Doesn't look like much of a contest.

    Dimaggio had an outstanding season in his own right but he lead the league in just RBI. Statsitaclly it is no contest who had the better offensive year.
    That's my argument, but the MVP went to JOE because of the 56 game hitting streak. BTW, Ted in 1941 was a decent outfielder, not yet bored with the position. I'm not saying he was as good as Joe, mind you, but in my mind the writers gave it to Joe for the streak, not his glove.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    That's my argument, but the MVP went to JOE because of the 56 game hitting streak. BTW, Ted in 1941 was a decent outfielder, not yet bored with the position. I'm not saying he was as good as Joe, mind you, but in my mind the writers gave it to Joe for the streak, not his glove.
    I think that's been the argument in a nut shell for over 70 years now.
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I think that's been the argument in a nut shell for over 70 years now.
    Yes it has. I think the MVP voting is a disgrace. They keep awarding it a year or 2 too late. Last season is a classic example in the NL. It shudda went to Matt Kemp instead of Steroid Von Braun. So I guess Kemp will win it next year instead of whomever should.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    In addition to most voters disliking Williams, I think the voters also gave a lot of weight to the standings when voting back then. If you think the voting in '41 was bad take a look at '51. Teddy came in 13th in the voting for MVP with a 1.019 OPS (highest in the league by a good margin) and Yogi won it with an OPS of .842.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    Just getting back to the forum and am asking the question that I originally joined to ask 2 years back. I was having a heated argument on the issue with a friend and wanted more opinions.

    I still do! I'm not an American League fan so I think my opinion is unbiased. My vote is for Ted and if there is any interest on this topic I will give my reasons.

    Thanx
    1941 ... and based on pure hitting, my nod goes to "The Kid."
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    In 1941 ... and based on pure hitting, my nod goes to "The Kid." Ted Williams seems to differ based on what I've read:

    In July 1941, during the All-Star break, Ted Williams said he considers the Yankees' Big Boy the best hitter in baseball, and tells why. "I have to tie into a pitch to get power," explained the Thin Thumper of the Red Sox. "DiMaggio is stronger. He hits the ball hard in any direction"

    At 200, DiMaggio outweighs Williams by 25 pounds, and the Bopping Bostonian sometimes loses as much as seven or eight pounds in a double-header in hot weather, and the weight is not easily regained. DiMaggio stands six feet, Williams stretches into the air three inches farther.

    Williams, who studied all the current better batters closely, points out that DiMaggio and himself are good wrist hitters who seldom offer at a bad pitch. Williams, who has come a long way in that regard since he made his famous "I wanna be a fireman" crack a year ago, shows that he now realizes the importance of temperament by giving DiMaggio a bulge in that department. "I've been down on myself," he smiles, "but never heard of Joe getting unsettled."
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Sure writters have blamed players for not being on a better team in MVP voting since, well seemingly forever.

    Ok, maybe Joe D doesn't win the gold glove but the point was he's in the discussion. The only time Teddy ballgames defense is mentioned it's usually in the context of if he was one of the worst defensive left fielders in the game or not.

    As for pure offensive numbers let's see, Ted lead the american league in R, BB, AVE, OBP, SLG, HR, OPS, OPS+. Doesn't look like much of a contest.

    Dimaggio had an outstanding season in his own right but he lead the league in just RBI. Statsitaclly it is no contest who had the better offensive year.

    I've got some other numbers related to this season for both. Here is a little example:

    Joe DiMaggio didn't have any games during the 1941 season in which he had only one official at-bat. Williams had 17 games with one at-bat. In those games with one official at-bat, Williams had a .471 BA, a .791 OBP, and a .765 SLG average. He scored 7 runs and had 6 RBI. He walked 25 times and struck-out once. He also had a HBP.
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Can't argue about who had the better offensive season but as is said these days the award goes to the Most Valuable Player not always the best pure hitter.
    And Joe D playing in YS really hurts his HR totals. Had Joe played in any other park his HR totals might have been higher than Ted's.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Visbeck View Post
    I've got some other numbers related to this season for both. Here is a little example:

    Joe DiMaggio didn't have any games during the 1941 season in which he had only one official at-bat. Williams had 17 games with one at-bat. In those games with one official at-bat, Williams had a .471 BA, a .791 OBP, and a .765 SLG average. He scored 7 runs and had 6 RBI. He walked 25 times and struck-out once. He also had a HBP.
    Come on TED you're paid to drive in runs not walk to first!!!!!

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    First of all, Let me remind everyone that the award is called the Most Valuable Player award, not the Player of the Year award as I personally feel it should be. In 1941 the BoSox finished second in the AL, 17 games behind the Yankees.

    MVP is not really subjective but the argument could be made that DiMag was more valuable to the Yanks than was Williams.

    Ted wasn't a bad fielder, but he was all offense and didnt really put much emphesis on D whereas DiMaggio was a superb CFer who made extremely difficult plays look easy. Yes the word was that Dom was a better fielder than Joe but if he was Joe wasn't far behind. He certainly anchored the position and along with the Scooter provide great defense down the middle.

    That all being said, I can't dispute the voters. But as you all know the MVP voting has historically been sort of a popularity contest and one thing is certain, Ted wasn't popular with the media.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    I believe that both Williams and DiMaggio should have been co-MVP's that year. As most baseball experts know, Williams was disliked by the writers and therefore, every chance they got to show their dislike of him they did.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    It depends on how you value defense and how you weigh the value between CF and LF. Joe D may not be the best defensive CF in the game, but he's a very good one and that's valuable.

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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    I believe that both Williams and DiMaggio should have been co-MVP's that year. As most baseball experts know, Williams was disliked by the writers and therefore, every chance they got to show their dislike of him they did.
    I've heard about his [Williams] being disliked. Was that by the Boston or New England press? Or was that the NY or other writers around the USA?

    What did the press dislike about him, and what did they write about him usually?
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    Re: DiMaggio or Williams in '41?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Yankee View Post
    I've heard about his [Williams] being disliked. Was that by the Boston or New England press? Or was that the NY or other writers around the USA?

    What did the press dislike about him, and what did they write about him usually?
    He openly hated writers and seldom cooperated with them. As a result of his feelings towards them, the Boston writers constantly wrote negative stories about him and turned many Boston fans against him. Did you ever read stories of him spitting at the fans? I don't believe writers in other cities were that negative towards him, but I could be wrong about that.

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