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  1. #26

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    I'm more upset because our 2nd or 3rd best pitcher is going to be in bullpen while we try to put lipstick on a pig (It's been 5 years. Aren't we done with the Hughes experiment yet?) and put up a 40 year old out of sentimental affection.

    What's the big deal with Hughes anyway? Isn't he a FA after this year, like Garcia?
    Did I miss something? Is Waldman working out of the dugout this year?

    And how is it lipstick on a pig when the kid isn't that far removed from winning 18 games?
    Mariano Rivera was so great he was able to close a Denny's.

  2. #27
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by hellonewman View Post


    Life with the New York Yankees. If he wanted guarantees I'm sure the KC Royals would have found a spot for him at a price of their choosing.
    Completely agree. And if he really is whining, the last thing he needs to do is do it to the press. You just don;t do that here. Whine to Girardi and keep that crap to yourself. Everyone not named CC as the same frigging problem he does. You don't hear anyone else whining about it.

    Which is kind of why I feel this may just be spun for media enjoyment.
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  3. #28
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by d32123 View Post
    Pineda

    Duh

    Thanks
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  4. #29
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    I'm more upset because our 2nd or 3rd best pitcher is going to be in bullpen while we try to put lipstick on a pig (It's been 5 years. Aren't we done with the Hughes experiment yet?) and put up a 40 year old out of sentimental affection.

    What's the big deal with Hughes anyway? Isn't he a FA after this year, like Garcia?
    I think calling Garcia our 2nd or 3rd best pitcher is quite the leap of faith. I LOVE what he did for the team last year, but let's not forget the year prior he was basically AJ Burnett-lite, and the 3 years prior to that combined he gave 129 IP of 93 ERA+ ball. The guy wasn't even a lock to break camp with the team last year as a 34 year old veteran, now he's pissed that he's not guaranteed a spot on a WS contending team? He got paid for making the team last year, and he got a nice raise this offseason based on what he accomplished. But now he's owed a rotation guarantee?

    Right now I'd say he and Hughes are fighting for the 5th spot (and Nova will be too if he doesn't start pitching better). It's not like it's impossible for him to start the season in the rotation, or get/stay there if he pitches like he did last season.

    And count me in on preferring that Hughes wrestle that spot away from Garcia. After his dead arm issue last year he came back and pitched acceptably. While he's disappointed in a big way, he's shown flashes of ability and still has youth and a higher ceiling on his side when stacked up against Garcia.

  5. #30
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    \

    Right now I'd say he and Hughes are fighting for the 5th spot (and Nova will be too if he doesn't start pitching better).
    I agree.
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  6. #31

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    I don't think the Yankees really "owe" him anything, but you guys are being silly if you don't see why he'd be upset.

    He's an older player hanging on to his career coming off a great year. In the offseason he agreed to come back to the Yankees, a team that needed pitching pretty badly when he signed. He could have gone elsewhere but he wanted to be here, like he's wanted to be here for basically the last decade lol.

    All of a sudden the rotation is crowded and he looks to be the odd man out. If people on this forum had their way, it would be impossible for him to make the rotation even if he was better than Hughes, let alone whether or not Pettitte can be effective.

    Of course that is going to frustrate a veteran like Garcia. Any year now is going to be the year that he can't get a job. He doesn't want to waste his chances to be in the majors.

  7. #32

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    I ain't even a pettitte fan but garcia's last person i wanna hear from on this team. just do your job

  8. #33

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    The Yankees basically did a classy thing and gave him a nice contract based on what he did last season.

    Also, come on Nova. get your poop in a group.

  9. #34
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
    I don't think the Yankees really "owe" him anything, but you guys are being silly if you don't see why he'd be upset.

    He's an older player hanging on to his career coming off a great year. In the offseason he agreed to come back to the Yankees, a team that needed pitching pretty badly when he signed. He could have gone elsewhere but he wanted to be here, like he's wanted to be here for basically the last decade lol.

    All of a sudden the rotation is crowded and he looks to be the odd man out. If people on this forum had their way, it would be impossible for him to make the rotation even if he was better than Hughes, let alone whether or not Pettitte can be effective.

    Of course that is going to frustrate a veteran like Garcia. Any year now is going to be the year that he can't get a job. He doesn't want to waste his chances to be in the majors.
    I don't think it's silly at all though. "Any year now" was last year in effect, as he had to sign a mL deal and pitch his way into the rotation. In fact, he got a rotation spot in spite of Colon looking better in ST last year if I'm not mistaken.

    Before he signed, he was going to be probably be battling Hughes, Noesi and anyone else that might have made a very strong impression in ST. They acquired Pineda and Kuroda and shipped out Burnett and Noesi. That makes the team better while still keeping the same number of pitchers competing for the rotation. So they've added Pettitte, a guy that won't be ready until at least May in all likelihood. If he can't outpitch Hughes and/or Pettitte then he shouldn't be in the rotation.

    Whether his angst is justified or not, unless he passed up other offers because the Yankees gave him some sort of assurance that they wouldn't continue to try to bolster the rotation, he should keep any frustration he has to himself and just go out and compete.

  10. #35
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    The Yankees basically did a classy thing and gave him a nice contract based on what he did last season.

    Also, come on Nova. get your poop in a group.
    Let's not make the Yankees out to be benevolent here or anything. They gave him that contract because he earned it and they had holes in their rotation - I'd hardly call it classy.

    The upside here is that he'd probably agree to be traded before 6/15 if they are comfortable enough with the guys they have to let him go.
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  11. #36

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Well, I like to think of it as classy.

  12. #37
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfallibleOne View Post
    Did I miss something? Is Waldman working out of the dugout this year?

    And how is it lipstick on a pig when the kid isn't that far removed from winning 18 games?
    His 18 game season is more reflective of the incredible run support than his ability. He pitched to damn near dead nuts league average.

    It's also 2 seasons ago and the only glimmer of hope in an otherwise lackluster career as a starter. Let me put his 4.90 ERA (as a starter) in perspective: AJ Burnett had a 4.73 ERA as a starter for us.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  13. #38
    Lets go Yankees BxBomber44's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Long-man for the Yankees at 4m? Stop your babying Freddy - plus, the Yankees regularly need a long-man dealing with injuries, blow-outs, etc


  14. #39
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
    I don't think the Yankees really "owe" him anything, ...
    Well I do think they owe him $4M this year. So that's something.

    As for a spot in the rotation, no they don't owe him that. He did give then 146 IP of very good ball last year and that should earn him a shot at the rotation this year or a trade somewhere else.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  15. #40
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    His 18 game season is more reflective of the incredible run support than his ability. He pitched to damn near dead nuts league average.

    It's also 2 seasons ago and the only glimmer of hope in an otherwise lackluster career as a starter. Let me put his 4.90 ERA (as a starter) in perspective: AJ Burnett had a 4.73 ERA as a starter for us.
    Adding additional perspective, Hughes' 4.13 xFIP that season was better than Garcia's 4.36 xFIP last year.

    You're discounting what Hughes did 2 years ago without acknowledging that over the past few years prior to '11 Garcia was basically pitching himself out of the league (when he could even take the mound).

    We'll have to wait and see, and Hughes shouldn't be guaranteed anything, but all things equal I'd gamble on Hughes before Garcia for the 5th spot given their respective ceilings at this point. I have nothing against Garcia and hope he pitches like he did last year regardless of what that means for Hughes, Pettitte or anyone else that might lose their spot to Garcia. I just think he's being unrealistic if he's resenting the fact that the Yankees continued to upgrade to the extent where he's not guaranteed a spot in the rotation on Opening Day.

  16. #41
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    I'm not saying either one is definitively better than another, but everyone besides CC is a giant question mark. Nova is unproven and looking terrible this spring, for what that's worth. Our new acquisitions are largely unproven in the AL and/or missing a few mph. I don't think anyone is saying Garcia, Pettitte or Hughes are guaranteed performers.

    All things being equal, I don't think it's unreasonable to shake Garcia out as somewhere in the middle, especially considering he's had more recent in the AL, save Nova. Unfortunately, he's basically designated for dead last unless someone screws the pooch upside down and sideways on Sundays.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  17. #42
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    The Yankees don't owe him anything besides that $4m. He still needs to earn that spot. 2011 is over and done with at his age it's no longer about past performance it's about what he can do now. And if he can't do it he is a disservice to the team. If Pettitte can do it better, sucks for Garcia. Or whoever loses their job to him, assuming anyone does.
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  18. #43
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    In fairness, one thing I didn't realize is that Garcia has about $1.5MM in incentives tied to the number of games he starts. Not that he's a good bet to reach even the 25 GS threshold to start those incentives given his injury history, but I could understand why seeing Burnett go after Pineda and Kuroda were added only to see Pettitte sign is probably a bummer for the guy. I'm not concerned with him being frustrated; I just don't want him commenting publicly on it.

  19. #44

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Sweaty Freddy has always kind of been like that, from my understanding. But it's good. He's not being disrespectful and hopefully it brings out the best in him.

  20. #45

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    yea it sucks. it is a problem for the yankees too because they can't exactly pump up his value and trade him. the problem of roster constraints.
    always reasonable

  21. #46
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    yea it sucks. it is a problem for the yankees too because they can't exactly pump up his value and trade him. the problem of roster constraints.
    Their best bet is probably to trade him before the season starts, but 1) that requires him to agree to a trade and 2) they have to take a leap of faith on Hughes/Pettitte being able to hold down a spot and the general health of their rotation
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  22. #47

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    and the issue may be complicated by what was implicitly promised during negotiations etc. stuff like that may not be visible but it is important
    always reasonable

  23. #48
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    and the issue may be complicated by what was implicitly promised during negotiations etc. stuff like that may not be visible but it is important

    I know what you are saying, but not sure I agree.
    That's the old "get it in writing" argument.

    The only thing he is guaranteed is the guaranteed money that is part of the contract.
    You have to assume that anything said verbally, no matter how certain it seems, is a coin flip.

    I was promised a promotion, with a fat raise, several years back, but of course, as the saying goes "barring anything highly unusual or unforeseen." Of course, suddenly the guy who held the position I was about to be promoted to at our chief competitor decided he wanted to work for us and leave his old place.
    Boom, done. And unlike Freddy, I did not have a guaranteed salary at that new level. It took me 4 additional years to get that promotion. A promotion with a 20K increase. That is at least 80K I lost over those 4 years..

    Was he told that he would be competing for a rotation spot? A roster spot even? Perhaps. When he signed, could he have expected it? Yes.. Barring anything unforeseen.

    Except the unforeseen happened. Pineda for Montero, Kuroda leaving the west coast and deciding against Japan. Pettitte unretiring. I'd have been stunned by any one of those happening, but all 3 did.
    In most walks of life, the equivalent would have been shut up or leave, or heck, maybe him being laid off. Except he still will make millions no matter what.
    The unexpected happened. Are we supposed to turn down trades and free agents that will make us better, and maybe put us over the top, because we may have intimated to Freddy Garcia that he likely had a roster spot and perhaps a rotation spot?
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  24. #49

    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    I know what you are saying, but not sure I agree.
    That's the old "get it in writing" argument.

    The only thing he is guaranteed is the guaranteed money that is part of the contract.
    You have to assume that anything said verbally, no matter how certain it seems, is a coin flip.

    I was promised a promotion, with a fat raise, several years back, but of course, as the saying goes "barring anything highly unusual or unforeseen." Of course, suddenly the guy who held the position I was about to be promoted to at our chief competitor decided he wanted to work for us and leave his old place.
    Boom, done. And unlike Freddy, I did not have a guaranteed salary at that new level. It took me 4 additional years to get that promotion. A promotion with a 20K increase. That is at least 80K I lost over those 4 years..

    Was he told that he would be competing for a rotation spot? A roster spot even? Perhaps. When he signed, could he have expected it? Yes.. Barring anything unforeseen.

    Except the unforeseen happened. Pineda for Montero, Kuroda leaving the west coast and deciding against Japan. Pettitte unretiring. I'd have been stunned by any one of those happening, but all 3 did.
    In most walks of life, the equivalent would have been shut up or leave, or heck, maybe him being laid off. Except he still will make millions no matter what.
    The unexpected happened. Are we supposed to turn down trades and free agents that will make us better, and maybe put us over the top, because we may have intimated to Freddy Garcia that he likely had a roster spot and perhaps a rotation spot?
    i'm not saying that it is wrong to do this to him. it does add some perspective when you try to judge his reaction.
    always reasonable

  25. #50
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: Garcia's Reaction to the Pettitte un-retirement and signing

    Yeah, I can't imagine the Yankees PROMISED him anything. Although after reviewing the terms of his deal and the incentives based on GS I'm sure Garcia was expecting a near-certain opportunity to be a part of the rotation throughout the season.

    That said, the team improved in the SP area. He can't expect the team to pass up opportunities that they view as improvements to the roster because he signed a deal with them first. If Cashman had known he was going to land Pineda, Kuroda and Pettitte and unload Burnett, I'm sure he would have passed on Garcia and invested his $4MM or so in a better bat for DH. The offseason is a fluid thing.

    I would be very surprised if he pitches like he did last year if he won't earn a spot outright or in the event of an injury. He just needs to perform. If he does and the Yankees don't open up a sustained spot for him, he could request a trade.

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