Andy Pettitte makes a comeback

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

He should have lied under oath?
Wow, just wow.

Snitches get stitches dude.

[unfamous loser]

Pettitte deserves contempt for being a snitch, but Leyritz is yanksftw's boy.

weird dude.

[Eldee5]

Here's a link to Andy's news conference in Tampa today:
http://web.yesnetwork.com/media/vide...y_20234777&v=3

[DiMaggio5CF]

Here's a link to Andy's news conference in Tampa today:
http://web.yesnetwork.com/media/vide...y_20234777&v=3

YES won't stop showing this. I'm already getting sick of the Pettitte comeback story.

[yanksftw]

Pettitte deserves contempt for being a snitch, but Leyritz is yanksftw's boy.

weird dude.

where i'm from, you share needle and secret with your boy. that's sacred, you don't break that trust. pettitte prolly did the right thing but he did Clemens dirty and you would have to think twice before telling him something in confidence

[Mr Coffee]

where i'm from, you share needle and secret with your boy. that's sacred, you don't break that trust. pettitte prolly did the right thing but he did Clemens dirty and you would have to think twice before telling him something in confidence

Sounds like you live in a pretty sh!tty area.

[DiMaggio5CF]

where i'm from, you share needle and secret with your boy. that's sacred, you don't break that trust. pettitte prolly did the right thing but he did Clemens dirty and you would have to think twice before telling him something in confidence

Please spare us the "street-cred tough-guy" routine. This debate has been had a thousand times on this board; no need to rehash it now.

[Mr Coffee]

[False1]

where i'm from, you share needle and secret with your boy. that's sacred, you don't break that trust. pettitte prolly did the right thing but he did Clemens dirty and you would have to think twice before telling him something in confidence

You share needles with boys?

[35Knucklecurve]

I would love to see four-man rotations come back.

I've been saying that for years. It seems as though pitchers didn't have nearly as many elbow, shoulder, back, knee, etc. problems on 3 days rest. They're treated like your grandmother's fine china now and I think it does more harm than good. With all the advancements/changes in training (especially in the off-season), better equipment, more attention paid to nutrition and overall health, pitchers - any player - today should be able hold up even better than those who played 40 years ago.

[SatchelPaigeYankee]

Please spare us the "street-cred tough-guy" routine. This debate has been had a thousand times on this board; no need to rehash it now.

whatever sense of social solidarity and duty that yanksftw is citing is no less or more ethically sound than the one many of the rest of you feel toward the collection of abstractions-&-douchebags-enacting-them that we call the law. both are equally ridiculous and yet important to people.

[teknetic]

where i'm from, you share needle and secret with your boy. that's sacred, you don't break that trust. pettitte prolly did the right thing but he did Clemens dirty and you would have to think twice before telling him something in confidence

Bug chasers are gross.

[awy]

I've been saying that for years. It seems as though pitchers didn't have nearly as many elbow, shoulder, back, knee, etc. problems on 3 days rest. They're treated like your grandmother's fine china now and I think it does more harm than good. With all the advancements/changes in training (especially in the off-season), better equipment, more attention paid to nutrition and overall health, pitchers - any player - today should be able hold up even better than those who played 40 years ago.

depends on which era serves as your reference comparison, today's pitchers throw harder. a 4 guy rotation is obviously more productive if everyone stays healthy, but there is a lot of risk trying to find out whether your guys are going to be healthy with 4 days instead of 5.

[Mr Coffee]

whatever sense of social solidarity and duty that yanksftw is citing is no less or more ethically sound than the one many of the rest of you feel toward the collection of abstractions-&-douchebags-enacting-them that we call the law. both are equally ridiculous and yet important to people.

Yeah, I should just be able to shoot people and take their stuff.

Stupid laws.

[awy]

that's not really the point

[Mr Coffee]

Enlighten me, Yoda.

[awy]

i don't really wanna

[Mr Coffee]

Then I don't know if you'll qualify for the participation ribbon given at the end of the thread.

[yanksftw]

Enlighten me, Yoda.

he's saying that all laws and customs are inherently culture bound and relativistic. There's no absolute code of conduct, everything is contingent on the group and society you affiliate with.

and in this increasingly atomized world, to feel more confederation with this codified abstraction of social norms known as the law over the kinship of your friends and family is absurd.

[Mr Coffee]

he's saying that all laws and customs are inherently culture bound and relativistic. There's no absolute code of conduct, everything is contingent on the group and society you affiliate with.

and in this increasingly atomized world, to feel more confederation with this codified abstraction of social norms known as the law over the kinship of your friends and family is absurd.

That's a pretty good argument.

However in the case of Pettitte and Clemens, at the point where it came down to Pettitte possibly having to go to jail shouldn't Clemens have stepped up and gotten him off the hook? Loyalty should go both ways.

[JL25and3]

depends on which era serves as your reference comparison, today's pitchers throw harder. a 4 guy rotation is obviously more productive if everyone stays healthy, but there is a lot of risk trying to find out whether your guys are going to be healthy with 4 days instead of 5.

I don't know what sort of work's been done on pitcher abuse recently, but the groundbreaking stuff came from Rany Jazayerli over at Baseball Prospectus 10 years or so ago. He felt that the danger came from high pitch counts, but that a four-man rotation did not really increase injury risk.

The catch is that some organization has to start doing it throughout their system. I think a four-man rotation would work and have benefits, but you can't expect to do it precipitously at the ML level.

[effdamets]

If the strikezone were to open up again, from the letters to the knees, pitch counts would go down and the 4 man rotation would then be a viable option.
But as long as the zone remains mid-thigh only, pitch counts will continue to soar.

[JL25and3]

If the strikezone were to open up again, from the letters to the knees, pitch counts would go down and the 4 man rotation would then be a viable option.
But as long as the zone remains mid-thigh only, pitch counts will continue to soar.

Pitch counts and rest days are separate issues. 120+ pitches is generally not good, and a pitcher's performance often suffers afterwards, especially if it happens repeatedly. But it's not clear that the extra day of rest makes much of a difference - the high pitch counts still have their effect.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I don't know what sort of work's been done on pitcher abuse recently, but the groundbreaking stuff came from Rany Jazayerli over at Baseball Prospectus 10 years or so ago. He felt that the danger came from high pitch counts, but that a four-man rotation did not really increase injury risk.

The catch is that some organization has to start doing it throughout their system. I think a four-man rotation would work and have benefits, but you can't expect to do it precipitously at the ML level.

If the strikezone were to open up again, from the letters to the knees, pitch counts would go down and the 4 man rotation would then be a viable option.
But as long as the zone remains mid-thigh only, pitch counts will continue to soar.

Good points here -- you'd have to "raise" pitchers that way to make the change. And I'd guess agents would be resistant for fear that the "experiment" would hurt pitchers before they could really cash in.

Agree with Eff too -- there's more focus than ever on taking pitches, raising pitch counts, etc. now, which would definitely make it tougher.

[hellonewman]

depends on which era serves as your reference comparison, today's pitchers throw harder

Is there any reliable data to support this? I remember reading in one of Bill James' books that he believes pitchers 50 years ago actually threw harder than today's.