2012 Mark Teixeira Performance Thread

[YankeeFan1421]

It's pretty simple. If we didn't have to pay Teixeira a fcukton of money, then we would have more to spend on other needs, in light of the new self imposed salary cap that we will have.


That's why his salary is relevant to any discussion on him.

I don't think people understand or believe that there is a de facto salary cap coming. For nearly twenty years, the Yankees never made any decisions that were based significantly on payroll and it's completely foreign to many to think that a player's production needs to be adjusted for salary when evaluating overall performance.

[snapple]

I think you guys think too much of his salary

[YankeeFan1421]

I think you guys think too much of his salary

Yeah, I know. You already said earlier this year that you wouldn't let him go right now to any team willing to take on his salary. Presumably, you think the $22.5m every year for the next four years couldn't be better spent elsewhere.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

It's pretty simple. If we didn't have to pay Teixeira a fcukton of money, then we would have more to spend on other needs, in light of the new self imposed salary cap that we will have.


That's why his salary is relevant to any discussion on him.

a player's production needs to be adjusted for salary when evaluating overall performance.

That doesn't make any sense. His performance is what it is, regardless of his salary, regardless of the team's payroll, regardless of the team's financial ability to address whatever needs exist on the roster. It's pretty simple. Whether or not a level of performance is commensurate with the salary paid for it is separate from the actual level of performance. That said, whining is fun for some, so there you go.

[YankeeFan1421]

That doesn't make any sense. His performance is what it is, regardless of his salary, regardless of the team's payroll, regardless of the team's financial ability to address whatever needs exist on the roster. It's pretty simple. Whether or not a level of performance is commensurate with the salary paid for it is separate from the actual level of performance. That said, whining is fun for some, so there you go.

We're just thinking on a different level than you. You see his performance on the field and are happy with it. Those who are looking at it as contribution to the team, as adjusted to how much of the team's resources he is consuming, reach a different conclusion.

[Jax Teller]

If Tex was showing a hint of the player he was in 2009, his salary would hardly even be talked about. The same goes for any player making huge money & severely under performing. Not sure why some people are acting like this is some strange new train of thought.

[YankeeFan1421]

If Tex was showing a hint of the player he was in 2009, his salary would hardly even be talked about. The same goes for any player making huge money & severely under performing. Not sure why some people are acting like this is some strange new train of thought.

Because for many Yankee fans, particularly of a certain age, they have never seen the consequences of bad contracts. They see that Tex has 23 home runs and has a good glove and say, "hey, what's the issue? From July 7 through two days ago, he was one of the most productive first basemen in the league."

That's all they see.

[Blazer]

Because for many Yankee fans, particularly of a certain age, they have never seen the consequences of bad contracts. They see that Tex has 23 home runs and has a good glove and say, "hey, what's the issue? From July 7 through two days ago, he was one of the most productive first basemen in the league."

That's all they see.

Playing up to one's contract in the mega-deal, mega-year era is different than before. In the bad old days we would soon to be rid of, if not already, a bad contract. Currently we're 4 and 5 years into two of the worst looking Yankee contracts, yet we're only half through each of them.

[K-W]

Madjack you got it backwards. Yes his performance as it relates to his salary is relevant in a discussion about the Yankee payroll, composition and flexibility. It does not follow that the Yankee payroll is relevant in a discussion about Mark Teixeira's 2012 performance never mind that it should be the focus of this discussion.

[K-W]

Because for many Yankee fans, particularly of a certain age, they have never seen the consequences of bad contracts. They see that Tex has 23 home runs and has a good glove and say, "hey, what's the issue? From July 7 through two days ago, he was one of the most productive first basemen in the league."

That's all they see.

You think these people frequent online Yankee forums?

Nobody here needs to be educated about the effects of big contracts on the payroll. The issue is whether the discussion of the team's payroll flexibility should be the focus of a particular player's performance thread to the point where people are arguing that performance can only ever be viewed through the prism of salary and payroll.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

Currently we're 4 and 5 years into two of the worst looking Yankee contracts, yet we're only half through each of them.

That is as true as it is discouraging.

[YankeeFan1421]

You think these people frequent online Yankee forums?

Nobody here needs to be educated about the effects of big contracts on the payroll. The issue is whether the discussion of the team's payroll flexibility should be the focus of a particular player's performance thread to the point where people are arguing that performance can only ever be viewed through the prism of salary and payroll.

Yes, I do. Earlier this year, on this very thread, there was a discussion about whether or not the Yankees would simply let Tex go right now to a team willing to take him and his contract. It is essentially a hypothetical question, given Tex's no trade clause and the difficulty of doing that in the middle of the season. However, to the basic questions, some said yes and others said no. To me, anybody saying 'no' to that question doesn't appreciate what the payroll implications are and how it can effect others.

Look at the Red Sox this year...letting Scutaro go to save $6million (plus whatever payroll tax went with that). Certainly, the Red sox have much bigger problems than Mike Aviles, but as the sox have always operated pretty close to the Yankees, this move will prove to be a harbinger of things to come in the bronx.

As the Yankees are now joining all the other teams in baseball in having to make trade-offs on payroll, Tex is a prime example of somebody who is going to make it challenging for them. Still a pretty good player, but with a contract that makes his overall contribution o the team's competitive standing a neutral at best one and probably a net negative. That isn't his fault, of course. he still puts up solid numbers as a middle of the order first baseman, but he's not an All-Star, he's easily not top five at his position, and we may very well be beginning to see the end of his extremely durable qualities. If he ends up with a .330 obp and 30 home runs this year, he's obviously still contributing to wins above an average random first baseman, but not at the rate that the $22.5m a year should yield.

[K-W]

The payroll is an issue much larger than Texiera and his 2012 salary is based on his contract it has no direct relationship to his 2012 performance. If there are people on this forum unaware of the Yankees need to get the payroll under control, something covered throughout the online, television and print media for years, they are rare and probably not worth worrying about. There is no need to constantly complain about his salary on this thread. It adds nothing to the discussion and it is openly being used as an excuse to exaggerate his decline.

[snapple]

The payroll is an issue much larger than Texiera and his 2012 salary is based on his contract it has no direct relationship to his 2012 performance. If there are people on this forum unaware of the Yankees need to get the payroll under control, something covered throughout the online, television and print media for years, they are rare and probably not worth worrying about. There is no need to constantly complain about his salary on this thread. It adds nothing to the discussion and it is openly being used as an excuse to exaggerate his decline.

[Jax Teller]

Not allowed to talk about his salary....not allowed to talk about his declining production...

[montrealer]

Another white elephant in the room..........lockerroom is gonna get crowed......

[madjack]

Not allowed to talk about his salary....not allowed to talk about his declining production...

I think he has great hair.

[Jax Teller]

That he does.

[montrealer]

Horse teeth......

[snapple]

He said no need to constantly complain. Which is what happens.

[K-W]

Not allowed to talk about his salary....not allowed to talk about his declining production...

I argued that his salary has little relevance to his 2012 performance and shouldn't be the focus of a discussion about his production. I think the implication is clear that we should be discussing his production and his salary is of some relevance.

[Jax Teller]

He said no need to constantly complain. Which is what happens.

As someone who refuses to acknowledge any of Tex's faults, what do you propose? Letting this thread die by not saying anything until he finally strings together some consistency? That could take a while. He was expected to play a huge role in this offense (not just one year) & whether you guys like it or not, people are going to justly criticize him for not being the guy they signed him to be.

[YankeeFan1421]

He said no need to constantly complain. Which is what happens.

Snapple, I don't see many on here who don't at least try to offer a balanced perspective on Tex. You seem to think that I'm one of the constant critics of Tex, but if you actually read what I say, I've said many times that he doesn't 'stink' and that he's better than the average player.

But there are serious issues with him when relying on him to be anything close to the best overall offensive player on the team, which I think was a reasonable expectation when he was signed and I think is a reasonable expectation as he is a first baseman and is a reasonable expectation when he hits in the middle of the lineup.

And i still don't understand why it isn't useful to factor in his salary as one of the main components of the conversation. There are finite dollars that can be spent on the payroll, and by all most accounts, the number of dollars is about to fall. Nobody blames the guy for taking the money, and I haven't seen anybody say he's not professional and doesn't seem to give a full effort.

And, really, you're the one who is the 'constant' anything. You're constantly talking about how he 'rakes' and how good he is and how tough it is to play sick and all this stuff....I mean, that's your right to see nothing but the good in the guy, but why aren't the rest of us allowed to discuss the shortcomings we see?

When you think about it, there aren't that many guys on the Yankees who are truly overpaid in the sense that they aren't producing against the level of their contracts. Tex is one of the few who can easily be considered by most to be overpaid and to whom the team is overcommitted. Arod is the other. And so both attract a lot of conversation....it's not a personal attack and I don't see how it's unreasonable.

[YankeePride1967]

While Tex is still putting up decent numbers, he is hardly putting up numbers that we signed him for. I don't think anyone is calling him a bum.

[2JAY]

Any news on Teixeira if he is a go tonight?