2012 Mark Teixeira Performance Thread

[grizy]

Warm and humid weather is good for flyball hitters.

[snapple]

.276/.371/.609 with 13 HR in 43 G since the start of the west coast trip (186 PA).

Would that be considered good production?

[nnysiny]

Warm and humid weather is good for flyball hitters.

good thing he plays a summer sport

[TheGameEpisode2]

Would that be considered good production?

I don't know, he's only hitting .276...

[JL25and3]

I have no idea if this is true or not - it's just my anecdotal impression - but he seems to be getting a lot of at-bats, and doing a lot of damage, batting right-handed.

[effdamets]

Would that be considered good production?

If I'm reading that correctly, that's a .980 OPS...

[pleasepassthesoup]

Would that be considered good production?

If he did that for a full year, it'd be the best season of his career.

[YankeeFan1421]

Thank you (that's what I meant). So, you're saying Tex is just a little above average then, right?

Actually, yeah, that it is what it means. He has a 118+ OPS. Given that OPS' flaw is that it is disproportionately favored towards slugging percentage (his strength), and away from OPB (his weakness), and given that he falls far closer to the 100 than he does the Votto type numbers, he is just a little above average for a first baseman.

Which is the point I made in the offseason.

[Mr Coffee]

Actually, yeah, that it is what it means. He has a 118+ OPS. Given that OPS' flaw is that it is disproportionately favored towards slugging percentage (his strength), and away from OPB (his weakness), and given that he falls far closer to the 100 than he does the Votto type numbers, he is just a little above average for a first baseman.

Which is the point I made in the offseason.

You made a point?

Damn, I missed it.

[YankeeFan1421]

You made a point?

Damn, I missed it.

Yeah...not surprised.

[False1]

Actually, yeah, that it is what it means. He has a 118+ OPS. Given that OPS' flaw is that it is disproportionately favored towards slugging percentage (his strength), and away from OPB (his weakness), and given that he falls far closer to the 100 than he does the Votto type numbers, he is just a little above average for a first baseman.

Which is the point I made in the offseason.

wRC+ has him at 119, 9th in MLB. WAR loves his glove, and his 2.1 is 4th in MLB.

I've acknowledged that going into June you were unfortunately pretty spot on with the "slightly above average" comment, if not the rationale behind it. However, Teixeira may be putting it together and hopefully by season's end you'll enjoy some crow.

[snapple]

Actually, yeah, that it is what it means. He has a 118+ OPS. Given that OPS' flaw is that it is disproportionately favored towards slugging percentage (his strength), and away from OPB (his weakness), and given that he falls far closer to the 100 than he does the Votto type numbers, he is just a little above average for a first baseman.

Which is the point I made in the offseason.

At least Tex has healthy knees.

[YankeeFan1421]

wRC+ has him at 119, 9th in MLB. WAR loves his glove, and his 2.1 is 4th in MLB.

I've acknowledged that going into June you were unfortunately pretty spot on with the "slightly above average" comment, if not the rationale behind it. However, Teixeira may be putting it together and hopefully by season's end you'll enjoy some crow.

I didn't see where you acknowledged it, but okay, at least you're reasonable.

I don't want to be right about Tex. When he came here, I fully admit I thought it was a huge signing for the Yanks...in a positive way. And through the 2009 season, I thought I was right...I'm sure I wasn't alone.

When he had a bad 2009 postseason, I wrote it off to the ever popular "small sample size" and didn't think much of it.

But then we had 2010 regular season and 2010 postseason. And then we had 2011 and 2011 postseason. Once a player starts declining in a measurable way over an extended period of time into his 30's, it's highly unlikey that said player will return to form.

And even now, I don't agree with anybody who says he 'sucks' or is terrible. He can look that way sometimes...virtually all players can...but I do think he's above average...but not by a lot. And this isn't adjusted for salary.

If he ends up with 30 home runs and a .330 obp, he's a net positive for the Yankees, obviously.

[False1]

I didn't see where you acknowledged it, but okay, at least you're reasonable.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=1#post7538037

I don't want to be right about Tex. When he came here, I fully admit I thought it was a huge signing for the Yanks...in a positive way. And through the 2009 season, I thought I was right...I'm sure I wasn't alone.

When he had a bad 2009 postseason, I wrote it off to the ever popular "small sample size" and didn't think much of it.

But then we had 2010 regular season and 2010 postseason. And then we had 2011 and 2011 postseason. Once a player starts declining in a measurable way over an extended period of time into his 30's, it's highly unlikey that said player will return to form.

And even now, I don't agree with anybody who says he 'sucks' or is terrible. He can look that way sometimes...virtually all players can...but I do think he's above average...but not by a lot. And this isn't adjusted for salary.

If he ends up with 30 home runs and a .330 obp, he's a net positive for the Yankees, obviously.

But you hail Konerko, who did just that at age 34.

[Yankee Tripper]

IDK, Tex has basically been a .250/.345/.490 hitter for 2.5 years now. That's a good productive player but it's not a $22.5M per season player.

[YankeeFan1421]

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=1#post7538037

But you hail Konerko, who did just that at age 34.

Yes, Konerko is one exception. Absolutely. But as a general rule, it rarely happens.

And when Konerko was 31 and 32, I would have said he was a barely above average player as well.

False, you and I disagree on a lot of stuff mostly on wording more than anything else. But you seem to know baseball. I seriously don't think you truly believe a 118 ops+, for a low obp first baseman, makes him more than slightly above average.

There are flaws in every stat, but 118 + OPS, if adjusted for a .337 obp, and then again adjusted for a first baseman, is not more than mildly impressive.

[snapple]

but his obp and ops+ has been going up steadily for a while now. That's the problem with what you're doing. You're looking at the numbers for the season so far and assuming it's the final product. At the pace he's on, he's probably going to put up a decent season.

[YankeeFan1421]

Nothing for nothing but Scott has been atrocious since '10. So far Tex is proving your "slightly above average" description right this season, and I get why you brought up Scott in the offseason, but even with the cost discrepancy he's not really pertinent to the discussion any longer.

Okay, just seeing this now. You're right, Scott has been horrible and he's been hurt (as he often is). As you sort of say, I brought him up not because I thought Scott was as good as Tex..not at all. My point was more about what the market was for first base production...I think he got $6m for one year. (Of course, he's not even playing first anyway, but it's not an unreasonable benchmark)

[False1]

There are flaws in every stat, but 118 + OPS, if adjusted for a .337 obp, and then again adjusted for a first baseman, is not more than mildly impressive.

wRC+ does adjust for obp (via wOBA) and has him at 120. As a rule of thumb, 120 is the floor that FanGraphs uses as "excellent" offensive production, given that the interpretation is that the player creates 20% more runs than league average. Clearly, 1B is more of a premium offensive position and that is proven out by the fact that Tex is 8th (allowing for both Konerko and Dunn to be counted) amongst ML 1B in wRC+, which is not up to expectations given his prior production and his contract.

I know WAR sends up the antenna for many, but it is the best data point I know of to account for his defensive ability - which is not trivial. WAR loves Tex' defense and has him 4th amongst ML 1B.

Again, he certainly was nothing more than "slightly above average" earlier this season, but that's debatable now. How much of that was his throat "injury", how much of that was due to Tex being a better 2nd half performer generally, or whether his recent production will be sustained... all that remains to be seen.

Clearly, he'd need to do a lot more from start to finish in a season to be worth what he's being paid.

[snapple]

Or just hit .400 for the rest of the season.

[Yankee Tripper]

Again, he certainly was nothing more than "slightly above average" earlier this season, but that's debatable now. How much of that was his throat "injury", how much of that was due to Tex being a better 2nd half performer generally, or whether his recent production will be sustained... all that remains to be seen.

As to the throat problem - breathing issuse - whatever. Maybe that did effect him substatially early on but that doesn't explain 2010 & 2011 and his 2012 prodcution overall is right in line with those seasons.

Clearly, he'd need to do a lot more from start to finish in a season to be worth what he's being paid.

Amen

[YankeeFan1421]

wRC+ does adjust for obp (via wOBA) and has him at 120. As a rule of thumb, 120 is the floor that FanGraphs uses as "excellent" offensive production, given that the interpretation is that the player creates 20% more runs than league average. Clearly, 1B is more of a premium offensive position and that is proven out by the fact that Tex is 8th (allowing for both Konerko and Dunn to be counted) amongst ML 1B in wRC+, which is not up to expectations given his prior production and his contract.

I know WAR sends up the antenna for many, but it is the best data point I know of to account for his defensive ability - which is not trivial. WAR loves Tex' defense and has him 4th amongst ML 1B.

Again, he certainly was nothing more than "slightly above average" earlier this season, but that's debatable now. How much of that was his throat "injury", how much of that was due to Tex being a better 2nd half performer generally, or whether his recent production will be sustained... all that remains to be seen.

Clearly, he'd need to do a lot more from start to finish in a season to be worth what he's being paid.

I fully admit I don't have the handle on the numbers that others do on here...you being a prime example.

But what you say about wRC+ is pretty close to my impression of Tex. At the floor of 'excellent' offensive production. But as a first baseman, being at the 'floor' puts him pretty much squarely in my categorization of what I think he basically is...slightly above average.

His defense, unquestionably, is excellent. Somewhere in the top five is what I would say...but that's observational and not numbers based. Perhaps it's my age that I remember in the 80's screaming that first base was underrated as a defensive position and now I'm screaming that it's overrated.

I know people think I'm fixated totally on Tex. It's not Tex, himself...it's the kind of signing that Tex was. Not his fault, but his signing occured just as a fundamental change was underway. And I'm not playing Monday morning quarterback as i fully and completely admit that i thought it was a great signing at the time.

[NoodleRay]

OK, maybe Mark's BA is not where we'd like to see it, But we're winning and sometimes we must keep in mind that that's our overall goal. I think that on a team full of big bats that sometimes individual numbers maybe down because there are so many highly contested games, every pitcher that we face is baring down giving it their best.

Unlike on lesser teams where pitchers might tend to be more careful with Mark, in lineups that aren't as deep. On this Yankee team, opposing pitchers must come after every batter because there's no one to pitch around. We see every teams best effort in every game, just the pressure alone would knock your numbers down, and lets not forget the dreaded shift, an I'm sure that it's hurt Marks overall numbers.

Also after being in the league for so many years, and with the use of computers now every little flaw is magnified because he's an important player on an important team.. Lets not forget that the overall pitching on most teams is also better then ever.

Now that Mark has been in the league an on several different teams for several years, his weaknesses at the plate are known just like every other veteran player, an other words there's a book on him. So as I said Mark is a great player on a great team, with very good numbers, he's helping the Yankees to win!

[Shadoux101]

This thread makes me giggle.

[The Comic Book Guy]

Over 50% of the guy's hits go for extra bases. His BB% is still over 10% (and his strikeouts are actually down, not that that means a lot, it's just weird). Defense is as good as ever.

Basically he hits less singles. I can live with that.