2012 Mark Teixeira Performance Thread

[YankeeFan1421]

Goodness, we get it. You are pessimistic that Tex will ever rebound from his '11 levels of production. You don't need to sh*t on every optimistic post in this thread.

Since March, you've posted in two threads: this Tex thread and the game threads (quite often about Tex). That's it. It's getting stalker-ish.

I actually laughed at this one: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...66#post7477366 ...but I think that has gotten a bit stale after posting it intraday every day since.

While the absolute lack of any isop is frustrating, I don't think anyone doubts he'll get his XBH. He does have a .371 OBP from the LH side, which I'd think should encourage you somewhat since that's one of the things you've been railing on him for.

It's too early to be really positive or negative (although I am frustrated with the results so far). But I think effdammets and others are just trying to find something positive in the results and perhaps trying to assess if he is changing his approach and (hopefully) the associated results.

Well, thanks for the feedback. Just so you know, I did post about Sterling today too. So I'm expanding my horizons. Granted, it was about his call on the Tex fly ball, but that was sheer coincidence. Did you hear his call last night?

I find most of the board to be pretty balanced on most Yankees. I have to tell you, I've never seen any player get a pass the way Tex does with Yankee fans, and I've been following this team closely for over 30 years.

It cracks me up when people say things like, "well, he hit a fly ball to left field tonight. I was encouraged by that."

I mean...jeezus. He makes $22.5 large a year. He is supposed to be one of the best, if not the best, offensive force on this team. And yet everybody gets excited if he hits more than a pop-up to the left side.

the Yankee announcers are worse than the fans. He'll dig a throw out of the dirt that should be made 70% of the time at this level and Michael Kay's purple head will explode. "OH WHAT A PLAY BY TEIXEIRA!!!"

LOL. It's too funny.

[effdamets]

yes, it's very encouraging that he hit a fly ball to moderate left field and then hit a very high fly ball to right field, that almost made the warning track, to go along with two singles. Excellent.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is player of the month in April.

There's really no need for your constant pessimism toward Tex to the point where it's venomous.

[K-W]

Tex doesn't get a pass on this forum. His depressed performance has been the main topic of this thread all along. Some people aren't as negative as you about it, they aren't being unreasonable, they aren't giving anyone a pass, they just don't agree with you.

[YankeeFan1421]

Tex doesn't get a pass on this forum. His depressed performance has been the main topic of this thread all along. Some people aren't as negative as you about it, they aren't being unreasonable, they aren't giving anyone a pass, they just don't agree with you. Deal with it.

I am dealing with. I am laughing at it. I didn't attack anybody or call them any names or anything. I see people say they are encouraged that he stayed back and hit a lazy fly ball to left field last night.

I was saying in the offseason that Tex is an above average player, but only slightly so. I was told I was way off base. I stand by that opinion and think he will definitely play better this year than he has so far, but his inability to live up to what he was brought here to do from the '09 postseason until today is disappointing for a guy who I thought would be a great Yankee.

[False1]

Well, thanks for the feedback. Just so you know, I did post about Sterling today too. So I'm expanding my horizons. Granted, it was about his call on the Tex fly ball, but that was sheer coincidence. Did you hear his call last night?

No, you didn't... unless you were trolling under one of your other handles. What was your user name prior to 6/11? You're starting to remind me of someone.

I find most of the board to be pretty balanced on most Yankees. I have to tell you, I've never seen any player get a pass the way Tex does with Yankee fans, and I've been following this team closely for over 30 years.

Please put some parameters around "get a pass." Just because some aren't prepared to say he is slightly above average doesn't mean he gets a pass.

It cracks me up when people say things like, "well, he hit a fly ball to left field tonight. I was encouraged by that."

I mean...jeezus. He makes $22.5 large a year. He is supposed to be one of the best, if not the best, offensive force on this team. And yet everybody gets excited if he hits more than a pop-up to the left side.

I have yet to see anyone in this thread claim he was underpaid or even earning his current salary with his recent production.

the Yankee announcers are worse than the fans. He'll dig a throw out of the dirt that should be made 70% of the time at this level and Michael Kay's purple head will explode. "OH WHAT A PLAY BY TEIXEIRA!!!"

So what? Kay oversells plays all the time, and undersells others. Although I would say if you're making a play that gets botched 30% of the time, that's probably a pretty nice play that's worth getting a little excited about.

[effdamets]

I am dealing with. I am laughing at it. I didn't attack anybody or call them any names or anything. I see people say they are encouraged that he stayed back and hit a lazy fly ball to left field last night.

I was saying in the offseason that Tex is an above average player, but only slightly so. I was told I was way off base. I stand by that opinion and think he will definitely play better this year than he has so far, but his inability to live up to what he was brought here to do from the '09 postseason until today is disappointing for a guy who I thought would be a great Yankee.

You're don't come across as dealing with anything and some of your posts are condescending.

[YankeeFan1421]

No, you didn't... unless you were trolling under one of your other handles. What was your user name prior to 6/11? You're starting to remind me of someone.

Please put some parameters around "get a pass." Just because some aren't prepared to say he is slightly above average doesn't mean he gets a pass.

I have yet to see anyone in this thread claim he was underpaid or even earning his current salary with his recent production.

So what? Kay oversells plays all the time, and undersells others. Although I would say if you're making a play that gets botched 30% of the time, that's probably a pretty nice play that's worth getting a little excited about.

Yes, I did. Go to the sterling thread in the out of play thread or whatever it's called.

[False1]

I am dealing with. I am laughing at it. I didn't attack anybody or call them any names or anything. I see people say they are encouraged that he stayed back and hit a lazy fly ball to left field last night.

It's not the result - the "lazy fly ball" - that was being commented on. It's the approach. Some are hopeful that a change in approach will lead to better results. You've made it abundantly clear that you differ in that regard.

I was saying in the offseason that Tex is an above average player, but only slightly so. I was told I was way off base. I stand by that opinion and think he will definitely play better this year than he has so far, but his inability to live up to what he was brought here to do from the '09 postseason until today is disappointing for a guy who I thought would be a great Yankee.

You're running those two things together. He hasn't lived up to what he was brought here to do and what he got paid in a big way for. Even in '09, he struggled in the playoffs and is very fortunate that A-Rod and others stepped up that post-season or he'd be getting railed on by many more than he is today. You need to either change your argument to a value-based one, or start to separate his actual production from his cost.

[False1]

Yes, I did. Go to the sterling thread in the out of play thread or whatever it's called.

Interesting... it doesn't show up in your post history. Maybe that search logic has you confused with someone else? You never answered the question about your previous user name. You remind me of someone who got RO'd prior to the ASB last year...

[YankeeFan1421]

Interesting... it doesn't show up in your post history. Maybe that search logic has you confused with someone else? You never answered the question about your previous user name. You remind me of someone who got RO'd prior to the ASB last year...

Dude, I swear I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't really start posting here until this past offseason...I may have changed logins or whatever as I signed up a year or two ago but I have not been leaving comments under different names and don't know why it would even make sense to do so.

You're right in that almost all of my posts have been about Tex..no dispute there. I've been in two or three game threads, but this thread has been, until today, the only one I think Ive posted in. Today ironically I posted about a play Tex was involved in (last night's flyout to end the game), but it was about Sterling and it's in the Sterling thread from about an hour ago.

Look, we obviously disagree on Tex but I'm not starting problems or posting under different names or whatever. It's just baseball and just comments about baseball...I'm not trying to start problems with people, even if my humor doesn't always translate the way people would like. If I'm being condescending or a jerk or something, then just tell me that straight up and I'll choose my words more carefully but I'm not playing some weird game on here, okay?

[K-W]

I am dealing with. I am laughing at it.

You are being condescending and dismissive of opinions that are not foolish or unreasonable.

[YankeeFan1421]

You are being condescending and dismissive of opinions that are not foolish or unreasonable.

Well, I'm sure my opinions are seen as some as foolish. I see the ones being expressed in support of tex as foolish often.

[False1]

You're right in that almost all of my posts have been about Tex..no dispute there. I've been in two or three game threads, but this thread has been, until today, the only one I think Ive posted in. Today ironically I posted about a play Tex was involved in (last night's flyout to end the game), but it was about Sterling and it's in the Sterling thread from about an hour ago.

Look, we obviously disagree on Tex but I'm not starting problems or posting under different names or whatever. It's just baseball and just comments about baseball...I'm not trying to start problems with people, even if my humor doesn't always translate the way people would like. If I'm being condescending or a jerk or something, then just tell me that straight up and I'll choose my words more carefully but I'm not playing some weird game on here, okay?

I don't think you're being a jerk FWIW. And as I mentioned I thought your first post that sarcastically praised Tex after a rather commonplace performance was funny. I ignored it the ninth time, the tenth time, etc. but it appears that you're literally waiting by your device for someone to say anything resembling optimism to pounce with that same one-liner, and that has been your sole contribution to the forum. It's clear you're bright and know baseball. It's also perfectly clear you're down on Tex. time to move on.

[snapple]

All of Tex's at bats were good last night. A few hits, and balls hit VERY hard. For slow start Tex, this is a good start. His opposite field out was very encouraging because he hit it hard and it was to opposite field. You can tell me I'm wrong, but I know what I saw last night. And most people here agree. And I believe it was effadamets who said, the posts are almost becoming venomous. Even with AJ Burnett, we all cheered for him and posted when he did well. It would be nice if we could even see a hint of the same.

Some posters in the thread just drop by and post a quick "0(*#%(U&#%*(%U" about Tex, but they don't seem to hang out in this thread and thrive on the negativity. False1 has been doing a good job discussing this, but I just wanted to chime in a few points.

[YankeeFan1421]

All of Tex's at bats were good last night. A few hits, and balls hit VERY hard. For slow start Tex, this is a good start. His opposite field out was very encouraging because he hit it hard and it was to opposite field. You can tell me I'm wrong, but I know what I saw last night. And most people here agree. And I believe it was effadamets who said, the posts are almost becoming venomous. Even with AJ Burnett, we all cheered for him and posted when he did well. It would be nice if we could even see a hint of the same.

Some posters in the thread just drop by and post a quick "0(*#%(U&#%*(%U" about Tex, but they don't seem to hang out in this thread and thrive on the negativity. False1 has been doing a good job discussing this, but I just wanted to chime in a few points.

Well, I really don't get what is 'venomous' about anything I said. the truth of the matter is that I find Tex easy to root for. Seems like a good guy and plays hard. I don't sense that it's a lack of caring or effort, I just think though that he's been a pretty major disappointment as a Yankee and I don't really see the light at the end of the tunnel for him. Cano, for example, hasn't really shown much more than Tex from a numbers standpoint this year ,but I know (or believe) he'll have a great year.

I don't know why...I can't explain what's happened...but Tex just looks like a very different hitter than what he was prior to the start of the '09 playoffs. yes, I know historically he's been a very slow starter. Though it's not irrelevant to note that last year his April and May were by far the best months of his year, so I'm not really convinced that it's really a 'start' thing (for him or any player)..these guys have been playing some form of baseball for about two months now and I think the 'start' factor is often overrated and more just random occurrence that can be magnified for inherently streaky players...players who may have down cycles at any time.

I am, clearly, adjusting my expectations for Tex against other first basemen in the league and his contract. I've compared him to Tino, who was a favorite of mine, and I think he's pretty much the same player now.

I guess I'm belaboring the point so I will ease back on my tex comments. I hope he goes on a tear, hits 35 home runs and has a .370 obp this year. I just don't see it though.

[False1]

Well, I really don't get what is 'venomous' about anything I said. the truth of the matter is that I find Tex easy to root for. Seems like a good guy and plays hard. I don't sense that it's a lack of caring or effort, I just think though that he's been a pretty major disappointment as a Yankee and I don't really see the light at the end of the tunnel for him. Cano, for example, hasn't really shown much more than Tex from a numbers standpoint this year ,but I know (or believe) he'll have a great year.

I don't know why...I can't explain what's happened...but Tex just looks like a very different hitter than what he was prior to the start of the '09 playoffs.

I am, clearly, adjusting my expectations for Tex against other first basemen in the league and his contract. I've compared him to Tino, who was a favorite of mine, and I think he's pretty much the same player now.

I guess I'm belaboring the point so I will ease back on my tex comments. I hope he goes on a tear, hits 35 home runs and has a .370 obp this year. I just don't see it though.

Well, the bolded wasn't clear initially. Unless I missed it, when you called him slightly above average you weren't saying relative to cost. If you had, I can't imagine ANYONE would disagree unless they were actually going to be more aggressive. Dollar for dollar his production is probably below average, even with the isop and good defense.

[YankeeFan1421]

Well, the bolded wasn't clear initially. Unless I missed it, when you called him slightly above average you weren't saying relative to cost. If you had, I can't imagine ANYONE would disagree unless they were actually going to be more aggressive. Dollar for dollar his production is probably below average, even with the isop and good defense.

Yeah, well, he's clearly below average, far below average, for a $22.5m player with four years left to go on his contract. As I've said before, Luke Scott is signed for $6m for one year and when healthy has put up close to the same numbers as Tex over the past three years I believe. Not to say that Scott is as good as Tex...he's not...but he's a reasonable replacement considering he's a one year risk and about $16m cheaper.

Taking cost and age completely out of the equation, I've said before that going into 2012 for one year, I'd take 7 or 8 first basemen ahead of Tex. In no particular order, I'd take Pujols, Fielder, Votto, Konerko, Gonzalez, Cabrera, and Berkman. Once you factor age and cost into it, there are at least 5 or 6 others I'd take ahead of him...though that's a hard thing to really dimension as it becomes very multi-variable with other team considerations.

I'm old school too about defense at first. Of course it's an asset, but there's a ceiling to its importance to me. Tex is clearly a great defensive first baseman, no doubt, but I don't put as much premium as others on it.

[False1]

Yeah, well, he's clearly below average, far below average, for a $22.5m player with four years left to go on his contract. As I've said before, Luke Scott is signed for $6m for one year and when healthy has put up close to the same numbers as Tex over the past three years I believe. Not to say that Scott is as good as Tex...he's not...but he's a reasonable replacement considering he's a one year risk and about $16m cheaper.

Taking cost and age completely out of the equation, I've said before that going into 2012 for one year, I'd take 7 or 8 first basemen ahead of Tex. In no particular order, I'd take Pujols, Fielder, Votto, Konerko, Gonzalez, Cabrera, and Berkman. Once you factor age and cost into it, there are at least 5 or 6 others I'd take ahead of him...though that's a hard thing to really dimension as it becomes very multi-variable with other team considerations.

Just in terms of on-the-field, I'd take Tex over Konerko. Yes, Konerko has been better the last 2 seasons at the plate, but the prior two he was considerably worse. Also, his defense is atrocious and if you thought it was hard to watch Posada run the bases... Tex ain't no burner but he takes the extra base. Konerko never challenges the defense, and for good reason. I might take Tex ahead of Berkman as well. Berkman has snapped back sharply offensively, but I'm not sure he's the better bet over the next few seasons, and he also has (last year notwithstanding) terrible splits and can be neutralized by lefties (the inverse of one of the primary issues with Tex).

I'm old school too about defense at first. Of course it's an asset, but there's a ceiling to its importance to me. Tex is clearly a great defensive first baseman, no doubt, but I don't put as much premium as others on it.

It's not as important as defense up the middle, but it has value. And while no metric is perfect, there are measures that can gauge his defensive value relative to other first basemen and on an adjusted basis relative to anyone anywhere on the field. Offense is more important at first, but a glove like his has value.

[effdamets]

Yeah, well, he's clearly below average, far below average, for a $22.5m player with four years left to go on his contract. As I've said before, Luke Scott is signed for $6m for one year and when healthy has put up close to the same numbers as Tex over the past three years I believe. Not to say that Scott is as good as Tex...he's not...but he's a reasonable replacement considering he's a one year risk and about $16m cheaper.

Taking cost and age completely out of the equation, I've said before that going into 2012 for one year, I'd take 7 or 8 first basemen ahead of Tex. In no particular order, I'd take Pujols, Fielder, Votto, Konerko, Gonzalez, Cabrera, and Berkman. Once you factor age and cost into it, there are at least 5 or 6 others I'd take ahead of him...though that's a hard thing to really dimension as it becomes very multi-variable with other team considerations.

I'm old school too about defense at first. Of course it's an asset, but there's a ceiling to its importance to me. Tex is clearly a great defensive first baseman, no doubt, but I don't put as much premium as others on it.

I cannot buy into the "when healthy" clause because health is a factor in getting a lofty contract.
If you're constantly hurt (a-la Nick 'crystaline' Johnson) the team is going to need to have reinorcments for when you go down.
I'm fairly certain that Baltimore would trade Luke Scott for Tex right here, right now if the offer were to be made.

There's defintely a valid point about Konerko for the past two years. And a comparison to Cabrerra is unfair (miggy has always been a better hitter).

The one thing I've always said about defense at first....
Good defense at first base won't win you any games. But bad defense at first will lose you plenty!

[YankeeFan1421]

Just in terms of on-the-field, I'd take Tex over Konerko. Yes, Konerko has been better the last 2 seasons at the plate, but the prior two he was considerably worse. Also, his defense is atrocious and if you thought it was hard to watch Posada run the bases... Tex ain't no burner but he takes the extra base. Konerko never challenges the defense, and for good reason. I might take Tex ahead of Berkman as well. Berkman has snapped back sharply offensively, but I'm not sure he's the better bet over the next few seasons, and he also has (last year notwithstanding) terrible splits and can be neutralized by lefties (the inverse of one of the primary issues with Tex).

It's not as important as defense up the middle, but it has value. And while no metric is perfect, there are measures that can gauge his defensive value relative to other first basemen and on an adjusted basis relative to anyone anywhere on the field. Offense is more important at first, but a glove like his has value.

yes, Tex is a better baserunner and defensive player than Konerko. But taking it from Opening Day 2010 through today, Konerko has 110 points on OPS over Tex...which is more than enough to make up for the defense and baserunning. yes, this is a definite cherry pick, as if we go back a couple of years before that, Tex wins.

I have to say, a lot of this is based on believing my eyes and gut after having watched far too many baseball games for too many years...the alarm bells go off with Tex in ways I cannot fully articulate. that doesn't mean I think I'm somehow more knowledgeable or can see thigns before others, so don't anybody take it that way, I'm just saying I think he's become a very different player. It's the same feeling I get looking at Youkilis..though I expect Tex to be a better player than Youk going forward, it's the same dynamic. They both have complicated swings with questionable bodies...everything has to work right for both. (No, i'm not saying Tex is out of shape, i'm saying that he is the type to begin to go quickly and not terribly athletic.).

compared to other yankee first basemen, just a frame of reference...Chris Chambliss (back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth), had a complicated swing too, though much quieter than Tex's. But he went fast. Mattingly was a strange one as he was deceptively simple, but adjusted pitch to pitch as well as anybody I've eve seen. Tino was much cleaner and relied on guessing and reaction...which is what Tex is trying to do.

[YankeeFan1421]

I cannot buy into the "when healthy" clause because health is a factor in getting a lofty contract.
If you're constantly hurt (a-la Nick 'crystaline' Johnson) the team is going to need to have reinorcments for when you go down.
I'm fairly certain that Baltimore would trade Luke Scott for Tex right here, right now if the offer were to be made.

There's defintely a valid point about Konerko for the past two years. And a comparison to Cabrerra is unfair (miggy has always been a better hitter).

The one thing I've always said about defense at first....
Good defense at first base won't win you any games. But bad defense at first will lose you plenty!

Luke Scott is on the Rays, not the Orioles. He effectively replaced Johnny Damon this year.

But, yes, if money and age were off the table, Tex is better than Luke Scott (or will be eventually in all likelihood in 2012). And yes, durability is key both on the field and also in evaluating worth..and Tex has been very durable, no question.

I don't understand how the Cabrera comparasion is unfair...I'm saying I'd take him over Tex to play first (even though he doesn't play first anymore). I doubt anybody would disagree with that.

[effdamets]

Luke Scott is on the Rays, not the Orioles. He effectively replaced Johnny Damon this year.

But, yes, if money and age were off the table, Tex is better than Luke Scott (or will be eventually in all likelihood in 2012). And yes, durability is key both on the field and also in evaluating worth..and Tex has been very durable, no question.

I don't understand how the Cabrera comparasion is unfair...I'm saying I'd take him over Tex to play first (even though he doesn't play first anymore). I doubt anybody would disagree with that.

You're right - the Cabrerra comparison should be in play. My bad on that one.
However, I believe at the time that he was 'acquirable' at least by the Yankees, he was perceived to be a lazy, out of shape kid that didn't have a long shelf life.
Guess what, that perception was wrong.
But in hindsight, the Yankees have done OK...

[snapple]

I think Cabrera is the best batter in the ML. That's why it's not fair.

The problem is that we're expecting Tex to do something that he's not paid to do. He hits the home runs and produces runs. That's what he's paid to do.

[YankeeFan1421]

I think Cabrera is the best batter in the ML. That's why it's not fair.

The problem is that we're expecting Tex to do something that he's not paid to do. He hits the home runs and produces runs. That's what he's paid to do.

Huh? It's not fair to say I would take Cabrera over Tex because Cabrera is the best hitter in baseball?

How does this make any sense? He doesn't count as better than Tex because he's the best?

[dabomb2045]

I think Cabrera is the best batter in the ML. That's why it's not fair.

The problem is that we're expecting Tex to do something that he's not paid to do. He hits the home runs and produces runs. That's what he's paid to do.

Wrong...he's paid to be the elite offensive player he was from 2004-09. We didnt sign him to be a Carlos Pena clone.