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  1. #601

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bomber999 View Post
    Clearly I was being sarcastic in using the word "rejoicing" to make a point. Hughes has been pretty awful as a starter for over an entire year now, and one decent start against the Royals is not nearly enough for me to be sold on the idea of shipping Phelps to the pen when Pettitte returns or gushing about Hughes' "shiny peripherals". I would put forth that the "discussion on this board" also doesn't need posters trying to suppress comments that they find disagreeable.
    Amen. There seems to be an undercurrent of hostility on this board toward anyone who says anything perceived as negative. I thought this was a place for expressing your opinion, whatever it may be. If you want strictly positive, feelgood comments, the Yankees have a press secretary for that. I've been a Yankee fan for over 50 years (yes, I'm that old--first game: May 1960, Yanks 4-2 over Tigers) and I think I'm entitled to say whatever the hell I want, within reason, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way about expressing there opinions. So let's drop the Pollyanna attitudes and try to be a little open minded about criticism.
    "The fans like to see home runs, and we have assembled a pitching staff for their enjoyment."--Clark Griffith

  2. #602

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarrd View Post
    Amen. There seems to be an undercurrent of hostility on this board toward anyone who says anything perceived as negative. I thought this was a place for expressing your opinion, whatever it may be. If you want strictly positive, feelgood comments, the Yankees have a press secretary for that. I've been a Yankee fan for over 50 years (yes, I'm that old--first game: May 1960, Yanks 4-2 over Tigers) and I think I'm entitled to say whatever the hell I want, within reason, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way about expressing there opinions. So let's drop the Pollyanna attitudes and try to be a little open minded about criticism.
    That's really funny, since, the majority of comments made this season on this board have been negative and even posts from those of us tagged as being Pollyanna in our attitudes.

  3. #603

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    This is why adding a solid change could launch Phil forward more than we think. It's not so much an extra piece, but could be the final piece. Then it's just a matter of fine tuning.
    If it hasn't happened already, fat chance. I know Phil is still young, but the book on him since he was probably 20 years old has been he needs to develop a changeup to reach his potential. He's tried it already and I just don't see it happening. He's using it a bit more this year, but its just not an effective pitch for him. Even his curve is not much. He's pretty reliant on his fastball. Personally I'm starting to think he's bullpen bound. He could survive in the rotation, but I don't think he'll ever really thrive there. That's just my take though and I'd love to be wrong.

  4. #604

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarrd View Post
    Amen. There seems to be an undercurrent of hostility on this board toward anyone who says anything perceived as negative. I thought this was a place for expressing your opinion, whatever it may be. If you want strictly positive, feelgood comments, the Yankees have a press secretary for that. I've been a Yankee fan for over 50 years (yes, I'm that old--first game: May 1960, Yanks 4-2 over Tigers) and I think I'm entitled to say whatever the hell I want, within reason, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way about expressing there opinions. So let's drop the Pollyanna attitudes and try to be a little open minded about criticism.
    Except that nobody has a problem with the fact that he has a different opinion. If that's what you actually believe, well then I don't know what to tell you.

    He blew everyone's opinion on Hughes' outing out of proportion, implying that everyone is "rejoicing" over this. Nobody is stating "Hughes is back!" He got called on that & is trying to backtrack.

  5. #605

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    If it hasn't happened already, fat chance. I know Phil is still young, but the book on him since he was probably 20 years old has been he needs to develop a changeup to reach his potential. He's tried it already and I just don't see it happening. He's using it a bit more this year, but its just not an effective pitch for him. Even his curve is not much. He's pretty reliant on his fastball. Personally I'm starting to think he's bullpen bound. He could survive in the rotation, but I don't think he'll ever really thrive there. That's just my take though and I'd love to be wrong.
    The question I have is whether the pitch is ineffective in your opinion because of his stubborness in not using it enough in every start?

  6. #606

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    It's because he still has no idea where it's going.

  7. #607

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The question I have is whether the pitch is ineffective in your opinion because of his stubborness in not using it enough in every start?
    I'm not basing this on my opinion but rather pitch effectiveness on Fan Graphs. Now I can't tell you if the reason its been ineffective is because he hasn't committed enough to consistently throwing it and perfecting it, but I can tell you that people have been telling this guy for about 5 years now that he needs to develop a changeup and its still not to a point where he feels like he can use it much in games. That tells me that its merely a "show me" pitch and its never going to develop into a true weapon. If it was truly effective and he was just too stubborn to throw it don't you think that his pitching coach or catcher might intervene and push for greater frequency of use?

  8. #608

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    I'm not basing this on my opinion but rather pitch effectiveness on Fan Graphs. Now I can't tell you if the reason its been ineffective is because he hasn't committed enough to consistently throwing it and perfecting it, but I can tell you that people have been telling this guy for about 5 years now that he needs to develop a changeup and its still not to a point where he feels like he can use it much in games. That tells me that its merely a "show me" pitch and its never going to develop into a true weapon. If it was truly effective and he was just too stubborn to throw it don't you think that his pitching coach or catcher might intervene and push for greater frequency of use?
    Then he's doom as a long-term answer to the Yankee starting rotation because I don't see him getting another chance after this season.

  9. #609

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    He's using the changeup 10% of the time this season. CC uses his about 11%.

    Usage rate isn't the problem. The problem is he just doesn't know where it's going.

  10. #610
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    It's because he still has no idea where it's going.
    over the fence ??


    http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot

  11. #611
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Petey View Post
    At the risk of sounding stupid, does PitchFX always operate independently of the stadium gun, or could it possibly just be reporting the same thing as the stadium gun that we see on TV?
    Yes, it's actually using a different type of technology that measures to the tenth of a decimal.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  12. #612

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    That's really funny, since, the majority of comments made this season on this board have been negative and even posts from those of us tagged as being Pollyanna in our attitudes.
    There are people tagged as Pollyanna???
    "The fans like to see home runs, and we have assembled a pitching staff for their enjoyment."--Clark Griffith

  13. #613
    BANG! StatenIslandYankee's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Hughes has REALLY pitched well lately. Very impressed.

  14. #614
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Good work, keep it up!
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  15. #615
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    did what he was supposed to do against a crappy team... gjob
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  16. #616

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    There's no greater feeling than a Yankees win, Phil Hughes looked great & the offense was hitting on all cylinders today.

  17. #617
    NYYF MVP

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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    He changed his approach considerably today against left handed hitters.

    He was going outside to lefty's against KC and painting the outside corner on two strikes.

    Today he was basically going in every time and probably threw off a lot of the Mariner lefty hitters.

    Interesting approach considering the short porch but he executed that pitch and got the job done.

    His ability to spot the fastball on the outside corner on lefty's with two strikes is his best out pitch so it was a interesting change.

    Toronto is his next matchup which is a top 5 AL lineup statistically but numbers show Hughes has done well against the Blue Jay hitters that have enough of a sample size.



    Hopefully he keeps pitching at this level.

  18. #618

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Still throwing mainly 4 seamers, curveballs and changeups. Only 4 cutters today.


    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/...F&prevDate=512

  19. #619
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Still throwing mainly 4 seamers, curveballs and changeups. Only 4 cutters today.


    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/...F&prevDate=512
    the consistent integration of his changeup has probably been the most encouraging development from these past few outings
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  20. #620

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    the consistent integration of his changeup has probably been the most encouraging development from these past few outings
    It will probably always be his third best pitch, but he needs to throw it 12-14% of the time as long as his fastball and curveball remain plus pitches for him.

  21. #621

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Looking forward to his next start, for sure.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  22. #622
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    It will probably always be his third best pitch, but he needs to throw it 12-14% of the time as long as his fastball and curveball remain plus pitches for him.
    Where are all the haters who want to send him to the pen? Nowhere to be found.

  23. #623

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Looking forward to his next start, for sure.
    I'll restrain any enthusiasm for Phil until that next start, to see how he does against the Jays, a much better hitting team, in that launching-pad of a ballpark in Toronto. I'm encouraged that he pitched that well today, but it is Seattle after all.

  24. #624

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Where are all the haters who want to send him to the pen? Nowhere to be found.
    I don't think many Yankee fans hate Phil and don't want him to do well, if they do then they're not Yankee fans.

    Furthermore, he still has a long way to go. This might be his last chance with the Yankees, he needs to take advantage of his situation.

  25. #625
    NYYF MVP

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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Where are all the haters who want to send him to the pen? Nowhere to be found.
    Why is this necessary?

    The people who questioned his place in the rotation a couple of starts ago were well within their right logically.

    "Hater" is such a terrible word when used incorrectly.

    And it's basically used incorrectly 90% of the time(statistical fact).

    Hopefully he keeps building off of his recent success and grows close to being the pitcher we all thought and hoped he would be but if he goes on another stretch of terrible pitching people are well within their right to discuss it with out being labeled a "hater."

    Lebron James has "haters."

    Phil Hughes not so much.

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