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  1. #401

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by azzurribaggio View Post
    What the hell is this delivery by Huzzeeee?? I watched Sportcenter and was like WTF!!! Not the same delivery when he came up and was good....did Guidry get his hands on him!
    Sigh. Doesnt it seem like at every level, they tinkered with phil's mechanics and pitches? Slider to curve to cutter to change... How about he learns one, gets consistent, then learn another? It's how people tend to learn in this world :/

    Top-down organizational change in pitching philosophy/teaching plz!! Have all the pitchig coaches from all levels meet once a week and compare notes and take direction from a jefe!! Then they all implement the plan together. Its not that hard :/

  2. #402
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Just call up anyone coach that has anything to do with pitching for the Rays and offer them a blank check.

  3. #403

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    Just call up anyone coach that has anything to do with pitching for the Rays and offer them a blank check.
    It was the perpetual high draft picks that helped the Rays build that staff. Year after year in last place netted them tons of 1st, 2nd, 3rd picks. In a few years, their farm system will be depleted of high draft picks after higher finishes, and without money to lure in free agents to fill those holes they'll be in trouble.
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  4. #404
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    Just call up anyone coach that has anything to do with pitching for the Rays and offer them a blank check.
    Agreed. His pitches have been up in the zone the past 3 starts. Surprisingly no adjustments have even been talked about... What the hell are pitching coaches there for??

  5. #405
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    It was the perpetual high draft picks that helped the Rays build that staff. Year after year in last place netted them tons of 1st, 2nd, 3rd picks. In a few years, their farm system will be depleted of high draft picks after higher finishes, and without money to lure in free agents to fill those holes they'll be in trouble.
    Please tell me you're joking, hell they just had a million draft picks last season. Yes it's easy to draft a Price and watch him ball. But let me know when the Yankees are getting gems in the 4th round like Hellickson, Shields in the 16th round and Moore in the 8th round while coaching these guys up into productive above average starters.

  6. #406
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Time to take him out behind the woodshed.

  7. #407
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    Ah - the Nardi Contreras/Billy Connors philosophy.

    Funny how Nolan Ryan has seen far more success from his starters by doing the total opposite - he doesn't baby pitchers at all and instead encourages high innings totals.
    Hasn't this been debunked a thousand times already?

  8. #408

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    I know we got Granderson in the deal and Kennedy wouldn't have had the success he's enjoying with the Diamondbacks here, but I never would've thought he'd had the most successful career out of he, Hughes and Joba in 07/08, at least as a top of the rotation starter.

    Just thinking about those relief innings Joba threw in 07 to where he is now- wasted, immature talent who probably won't pitch again this season. Hughes as a failed starter who has the look of a need for a change of scenery in his future or a permanent move to the bullpen. Very frustrating. Thankfully Granderson worked out, but I wish our pitching decisions internally and outside the organization had produced better results under this regime-bad luck at times or not

  9. #409

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Torre Must Go View Post
    I know we got Granderson in the deal and Kennedy wouldn't have had the success he's enjoying with the Diamondbacks here, but I never would've thought he'd had the most successful career out of he, Hughes and Joba in 07/08, at least as a top of the rotation starter.

    Just thinking about those relief innings Joba threw in 07 to where he is now- wasted, immature talent who probably won't pitch again this season. Hughes as a failed starter who has the look of a need for a change of scenery in his future or a permanent move to the bullpen. Very frustrating. Thankfully Granderson worked out, but I wish our pitching decisions internally and outside the organization had produced better results under this regime-bad luck at times or not
    IPK's success has a lot to do with pitching in the AL WEST.

  10. #410

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Its April, I never give up on a player this early but Hughes is done.

  11. #411

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    Please tell me you're joking, hell they just had a million draft picks last season. Yes it's easy to draft a Price and watch him ball. But let me know when the Yankees are getting gems in the 4th round like Hellickson, Shields in the 16th round and Moore in the 8th round while coaching these guys up into productive above average starters.
    Get back to me when Matt Moore actually does something at the major league level.

    Price #1 overall. Niemann #4 overall. That's 2/5ths of their rotation. I'm not saying they haven't gotten a lot out of a couple later round picks, but the bottom line is that 2/5th of their starting rotation is composed of guys that basically no other teams had a shot at.

    Any draft picks beyond the first couple rounds are a total crap shoot. Even #1 overall picks are far from a sure thing, though it certainly helps. But let's not pretend that Tampa Bay's exceptional scouting system resulted in finding a diamond in the rough like Shields or Hellickson. Let's also not pretend that they are some product of Tampa Bay's amazing developmental system. It's 95% luck.

    All I'm saying is that in a few years, Tampa Bay's lack of early first round picks is going to hamper their overall ability to field a team. Price, Niemann, Longoria, Upton ... those guys wouldn't be in a TB uni if TB didn't have perpetual 1/2/3/4 picks in the first round. Now that they don't get those any more, we'll see what other methods they have to field a team when that kind of talent pool is no longer available to them. They're going to start looking suspiciously like KC, Baltimore, Oakland, Seattle, et al if they don't come up with a better payroll.

    We've see this before - this whole "good for about 5 years with no payroll" thing. In both Oakland and Seattle. Just like those two teams, TB is going to follow suit if they keep that kind of payroll. It's inevitable that eventually your "luck" wears out in terms of drafting great finds, and when you go into that draft drought, you need to pick up the slack with big time free agents or fall back off the map.
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  12. #412
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraBomberalis View Post
    Any draft picks beyond the first couple rounds are a total crap shoot. Even #1 overall picks are far from a sure thing, though it certainly helps. But let's not pretend that Tampa Bay's exceptional scouting system resulted in finding a diamond in the rough like Shields or Hellickson. Let's also not pretend that they are some product of Tampa Bay's amazing developmental system. It's 95% luck.
    So all scouting and development is 95% luck?

    Really...are you really going with that?

  13. #413

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    someone photoshop Hughes in a Pirates uniform

  14. #414
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nnysiny View Post
    someone photoshop Hughes in a Pirates uniform
    I was thinking Chico's Bail Bonds jersey.

  15. #415
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Hasn't this been debunked a thousand times already?
    Pretty sure. I could have sworn that the Rangers still have inning limits when developing their young pitchers.

  16. #416

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    I was thinking Chico's Bail Bonds jersey.
    I was thinking the unemployment line.

  17. #417

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    I have to admit, it's not looking good for Phil. I'm disappointed and it's time to stop blaming the Yankees as this is squarely on Phil not being able to execute his pitches.

  18. #418
    The Best Ever ! jnewmark's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRNXBMRS View Post
    I was thinking the unemployment line.
    I was thinking Bullpen Row.
    What we can appreciate now is that the Yankees from 1996-2003 were even more extraordinary than we thought.

  19. #419

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    I read that today is the last day he can be optioned because tomorrow is the 5 year anniversary of being added to the 40 man roster. Is this true?

    If so send him down and give DJ Mitchell a shot.(2-1 3.13 era, .87 whip)


    The CBA states 5 years of service time. Hughes does not yet have 5 years of service time, and will get it within about a month give or take a few weeks. So if they want to send him down it will have to be before June 1 to be safe.

    Edit: And they should send him down, and have him develop a different secondary pitch like a slider or splitfinger because his curve is traaaaash. He can still use it to steal strikes and for a different look, but he needs a legit secondary pitch.

  20. #420
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Maybe it's because I don't get to see Yankee games unless they're on national TV or they're playing the O's, but the difference between Hughes now and when he first came up really caught me by surprise in the clips shown on BBTN. His entire delivery doesn't look the same. I know pitchers make adjustments as needed, but if it wasn't for the number on the back of his jersey, I don't I would have known it was him. What are they saying in the YES booth?
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  21. #421
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jnewmark View Post
    I was thinking Bullpen Row.
    Seems destined for the pen as soon as Pettitte is ready. I'll be sad to see the end of the Cody Epply era but it has to be done.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  22. #422
    Hughes/Robertson '12. groovitude's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRNXBMRS View Post
    IPK's success has a lot to do with pitching in the AL WEST.
    NL West.

  23. #423

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Seems destined for the pen as soon as Pettitte is ready. I'll be sad to see the end of the Cody Epply era but it has to be done.
    Cody Epply is better than Hughes at this point.

  24. #424

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRNXBMRS View Post
    IPK's success has a lot to do with pitching in the AL WEST.
    IPK was 0-1 with a 12.11 ERA last year against the AL West. just sayin
    Phil Hughes is a starter!

  25. #425
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Well, I'm running out of excuses. I thought his stuff up to his last start looked good and that would lead to better results, but with each bomb he's pitching himself out of what has become a shockingly thin rotation.

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