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  1. #276
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    I think that it's obvious to me that Phil was almost lethal as a short reliever, it did seem like if he was left in that position he would have been dominate. Yes he also won 18 games as a starter but what happened??

    It's a mystery, what could of possibly went wrong with Phil?? His rising fastball, his curve with a tight break. He's good then he's not, is there something he's not telling us? Only Phil knows, because the Yankees sure did have high hopes for him, so we just wait and see and hope that they push the right buttons...

  2. #277
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Ironic that you are using that 2 starts into a season, but fine he has a career K/9 of 7.6.
    Trust me killer, I've been down on Hughes long before this season started.

    As for his K/9...what's it as a starter. Lets not cherry pick those relief numbers.

  3. #278
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NoodleRay View Post
    I think that it's obvious to me that Phil was almost lethal as a short reliever, it did seem like if he was left in that position he would have been dominate. Yes he also won 18 games as a starter but what happened??

    It's a mystery, what could of possibly went wrong with Phil?? His rising fastball, his curve with a tight break. He's good then he's not, is there something he's not telling us? Only Phil knows, because the Yankees sure did have high hopes for him, so we just wait and see and hope that they push the right buttons...
    Maybe there is nothing wrong with Hughes. He just needs time to settle down. Two starts into the season and some guys already want to write him off. Seriously.

    This is the same guy who won 18 games as a starter and dominated as a reliever. I hope we won't be as impatient with our other pitching prospects.

  4. #279
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    It took Sandy Koufax seven years as a Dodger, at which time he was 25, to begin to reach his potential. Then, he suddenly became a HOFer. Either Phil is another Sandy Koufax, or he's just another pitcher who who will never be what everyone dreamed he would be. Something tells me...
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  5. #280
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LIYanks View Post
    This is the same guy who won 18 games as a starter
    Ahh...I can't believe you went with wins.

  6. #281
    Hughes/Robertson '12. groovitude's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    Trust me killer, I've been down on Hughes long before this season started.

    As for his K/9...what's it as a starter. Lets not cherry pick those relief numbers.


    You realize that using a larger sample is what "not cherry picking" means, right? Especially when you're deliberately taking out a fairly small part of the sample -- like about a tenth of his career (51.1 relief innings in 451.2 career innings, for 11.36%).

    As a starter, his K/9 is 7.1.

  7. #282
    Off To Never Never Land Mr.Muhozi's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by groovitude View Post


    You realize that using a larger sample is what "not cherry picking" means, right? Especially when you're deliberately taking out a fairly small part of the sample -- like about a tenth of his career (51.1 relief innings in 451.2 career innings, for 11.36%).

    As a starter, his K/9 is 7.1.
    A 9th. Shame on you.
    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  8. #283
    Hughes/Robertson '12. groovitude's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Muhozi View Post
    A 9th. Shame on you.
    Math's never been my strong suit.

  9. #284
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by groovitude View Post
    Math's never been my strong suit.
    Keep making awesome graphs and all will be forgiven.
    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  10. #285

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Ironic that you are using that 2 starts into a season, but fine he has a career K/9 of 7.6.
    Not just about two starts with Hughes it's about his entire career.

  11. #286
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    Ahh...I can't believe you went with wins.
    I know, I know. It's too easy and lazy.

    However, let's not dismiss wins as irrelevant data. It is, after all, the only metrics used to determine who gets the WS ring.

    Give the man a chance to succeed. I don't understand why some of you (not you specifically) revel in Hughes' struggle. It's not like he's been lollygagging during the game. At least, I haven't read about beers in the clubhouse, just saying.

  12. #287
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LIYanks View Post
    I know, I know. It's too easy and lazy.

    However, let's not dismiss wins as irrelevant data. It is, after all, the only metrics used to determine who gets the WS ring.
    I'm not dismissing wins as a team stat...but I'll ignore the hell outta them when it comes to pitchers.

  13. #288
    Yanksfanintoronto Yanksfanintoronto's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Nobody can say this for sure but sometimes it seems as if NYS has gotten into his head.....the difference in home ERA and road ERA might be an indicator of this. Maybe he needs to just block out the fans and just pitch.
    Death, Taxes and King Eli under centre

  14. #289

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by eaganmafia View Post
    Ahh...I can't believe you went with wins.
    I was thinking the same thing. This "banner year" was essentially league average with OPS+ of 103. He also imploded in the second half of the year.

    To date Phil hasn't shown the consistency to be anything more than a back-end starter. He might offer more upside than Garcia but then again Garcia just last year performed at a level higher than anything Phil has shown over the course of a full season.

    The sample size now is too small to tell which one should go to the bullpen, but each of them have at least 3 or 4 more starts before Pettitte returns, so I think you make a decision based on those starts who can give you the better chance to win. I think its relatively clear though that with everyone healthy these two are the #6 and 7 guys.

  15. #290
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LIYanks View Post
    I know, I know. It's too easy and lazy.

    However, let's not dismiss wins as irrelevant data. It is, after all, the only metrics used to determine who gets the WS ring.

    Give the man a chance to succeed. I don't understand why some of you (not you specifically) revel in Hughes' struggle. It's not like he's been lollygagging during the game. At least, I haven't read about beers in the clubhouse, just saying.
    5 years wasn't enough?
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  16. #291
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by groovitude View Post


    Current K/9Career K/9
    1Aaron Harang16.037.4
    2Cole Hamels13.878.5
    3Felix Doubront11.708.3

    Johan Santana11.708.9
    5CC Sabathia11.257.7
    6Gio Gonzalez10.978.6
    7Colby Lewis10.667.6

    Danny Duffy10.667.8
    9Tim Lincecum10.549.9
    10Dan Haren10.457.7





    Phil Hughes12.387.6
    Pretty easy to strike out 2 people out every 3 innings when you're facing 12 batters per inning (obviously a hyperbole, but you get my point).
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  17. #292
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    5 years wasn't enough?
    Really?

    2007 13 games
    2008 8 games
    2009 51 games (started 7 games)
    2010 31 games (started 29 games)
    2011 17 games (started 14 games)

    He really only played two full seasons, one as a reliever.

  18. #293
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LIYanks View Post
    Really?

    2007 13 games
    2008 8 games
    2009 51 games (started 7 games)
    2010 31 games (started 29 games)
    2011 17 games (started 14 games)

    He really only played two full seasons, one as a reliever.
    Because he was injured (Read: body couldn't handle starting). It's not like he was hit with a come-back pitch or twisted an ankle running the bases. His injuries were a result of his workload as a starter. If anything, his shorted seasons speak more to his inability to be an effective starter.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  19. #294
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Because he was injured (Read: body couldn't handle starting). It's not like he was hit with a come-back pitch or twisted an ankle running the bases. His injuries were a result of his workload as a starter. If anything, his shorted seasons speak more to his inability to be an effective starter.
    That's why I say to give him another full season as a starter to see if he just could not handle the workload. It's not like we have Strasburg waiting in AAA. I don't disagree that Hughes' one season as a reliever was impressive. However, I still think that Hughes has the stuff to be a good starter.

  20. #295
    Hughes/Robertson '12. groovitude's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Pretty easy to strike out 2 people out every 3 innings when you're facing 12 batters per inning (obviously a hyperbole, but you get my point).
    It's easier to get more strikeouts when your BABIP is unsustainably through the roof, yes. I'm not sure what to make of his strikeout numbers; they're through the roof at the moment, and his K/BB is better than career norms, but his walk numbers are up as well.

    The point of posting the chart had less to do with Phil's numbers than it was providing numbers to eagenmafia's claims. There are a couple of aberrations on the list, sure; but there isn't anyone on the list who has terrible career strikeout numbers either. The only one that really raises my eyebrow is Harang having the top spot by such a wide margin.

  21. #296
    Off To Never Never Land Mr.Muhozi's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Because he was injured (Read: body couldn't handle starting). It's not like he was hit with a come-back pitch or twisted an ankle running the bases. His injuries were a result of his workload as a starter. If anything, his shorted seasons speak more to his inability to be an effective starter.
    The only time Phil's injuries could be related to being a starter was last seasons shoulder tendinitis. Otherwise, before that most of them were freak injuries that were baffling such as the broken rib or the pulled hammy.
    40 pitchers, ever, have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

  22. #297

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    2 2/3 5r 6bb's 2k's?

  23. #298
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    I actually see him pitching well tonight, then everyone starts d**k riding him again and giving renewed faith in Phil. Then he'll go out and throw 2-3 crap starts in a row.

    The hills and and valleys of Phil Hughes.

  24. #299

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    You could be right about that. He does seem to step it up in certain games when everyone is counting him out.

  25. #300

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    I don't know why it is so hard for some to accept that Hughes is not durable, effective, or consistent enough to be a major league starting pitcher. He can potentially be very helpful out of the bullpen.

    I know he was supposed to be the next Clemens. He was a top prospect who didn't pan out- it happens more frequently than any of us would like to admit. We all need to mourn this loss and move on.

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