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  1. #151

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    His changeup just floats up there. The one swinging K he got with it was down the middle of the plate.

    Too bad Phelps hasn't been stretched out. I assume they'll trade Freddy, send Hughes to the pen and replace both with Pineda/Pettitte.
    This is what I've been saying since last year.

    He just has no control/command of his changeup. Trying to force it down the strike zone leads to bad results.

    Focus on the curve for offspeed.

    If that doesn't work, off to the pen he goes.

  2. #152

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    This is what I've been saying since last year.

    He just has no control/command of his changeup. Trying to force it down the strike zone leads to bad results.

    Focus on the curve for offspeed.

    If that doesn't work, off to the pen he goes.
    I think he's had enough chances to make it work as a starter. It ain't happening. His stuff is underwhelming and his results have been less than underwhelming for most of his career as a starter. Not efficient, consistent, or effective enough to be a SP.

  3. #153

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    He just needs his curveball.

    We know he can throw a good curve because he used to.

    His cutter is already a + pitch. Add a curve and he could be more than serviceable as a starter.

  4. #154

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    He just needs his curveball.

    We know he can throw a good curve because he used to.

    His cutter is already a + pitch. Add a curve and he could be more than serviceable as a starter.
    But it's always excuses and "he's just one pitch away". There are a lot of guys who are one pitch away from being a serviceable starter, year after year. They are called middle relievers.

  5. #155

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    That Iannetta HR would have been a foul ball in every other stadium not located in the Bronx.
    It's a homer in Fenway, too. Don't forget how shallow it is there right by the pole. But your point stands.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  6. #156
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    I'd give him another handful of starts to get things straightened out. At that point they can say they legitimately gave him enough opportunities in his career to cut it as a starter.

  7. #157
    The forgotten hero hellonewman's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I'd give him another handful of starts to get things straightened out. At that point they can say they legitimately gave him enough opportunities in his career to cut it as a starter.
    voice of reason, agree.

  8. #158

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I'd give him another handful of starts to get things straightened out. At that point they can say they legitimately gave him enough opportunities in his career to cut it as a starter.
    I just hope they make him focus on one offspeed pitch... the pitch he had success with before, the curveball.

  9. #159
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    He's spent pretty much the last year or so on the changeup -- it still sucks. I don't think he's gonna dump it so soon.

  10. #160

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I'd give him another handful of starts to get things straightened out. At that point they can say they legitimately gave him enough opportunities in his career to cut it as a starter.
    I'd give him until Pettitte/Pineda is ready and then reevaluate to see who needs to move. If it is Hughes who is performing the worst between he and Freddy then I think that needs to be the last of "Hughesy" in the starting rotation.

  11. #161

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    We know he can throw a good curve because he used to.
    We know it because he threw a few today. And at least one really nice changeup as well.

    He's capable of executing each of these pitches sometimes, but he seems to have trouble repeating it.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  12. #162

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    We know it because he threw a few today. And at least one really nice changeup as well.

    He's capable of executing each of these pitches sometimes, but he seems to have trouble repeating it.
    He never had the ability to command the change. But he commanded the curve pretty well when he first came up and when he was in the minors.

  13. #163

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Let's get real. Hughes hasn't really pitched well--or even well enough--since sometime in May of 2010, about two years ago. I say get him out of the rotation before he does any more damage.

  14. #164
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarrd View Post
    Let's get real. Hughes hasn't really pitched well--or even well enough--since sometime in May of 2010, about two years ago. I say get him out of the rotation before he does any more damage.
    Jack Curry@JackCurryYES Interesting stats from @JoeAuriemmaYES. Since June 2010 when Hughes was 10-1, he is 13-14 w 5.55 ERA. Averaging 5.4 inns/95 pitches a start

  15. #165
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    When is this experiment going to end?

    He doesn't have the stuff, endurance or durability to be a starter. He has a few brief stints of success, but just about every pitcher, over the course of 6 years, will have a decent streak.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  16. #166
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Jack Curry@JackCurryYES Interesting stats from @JoeAuriemmaYES. Since June 2010 when Hughes was 10-1, he is 13-14 w 5.55 ERA. Averaging 5.4 inns/95 pitches a start
    Even through June he wasn't that great. He just got crazy run support. 3.17 ERA or something like that. He wasn't out there pitching to a sub 2 ERA (that you'd need to go 10-1).
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  17. #167
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Unlucky and bad pitch selection IMO.

    "High fastball" on Pujols, slider? on Kendrick. Both in pitcher's counts.

    That Iannetta HR would have been a foul ball in every other stadium not located in the Bronx.
    Bingo. Bad pitch selction was the key for me. It was AJ-esque, looking pretty good for most of his pitches, then serving up meatballs w 2 strikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    The good news is that he is making the decision that much easier for when Pettitte and/or Pineda are ready (if he continues to pitch like this).
    How in the world can he stay in the rotatio much longer, let alone when AP and Pineda come back ?? Hey, David Phelps is better. And assuming his last outing was flukey in the cold with a slick ball, i have more confidence in Freddy to keep us in the game for 5 or 6 innings.

    IMO the only "great" year he had was in the pen. He started gangbusters in 2010 but when the world caught on to his FB, he stumbled into 18 Ws largely on the strength of mombo run support and mostly mediocre second half performances. High pitch counts, inability to put hitters away, uneven secondary pitches, big propensity for the gopher ball, same old story. His stuff looks better in patches but the bottom line remains the same.

  18. #168
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    It's not like this is his first or second in the bigs and we have him cost controlled for a long time. He's a free agent after this year. I just dont get it.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  19. #169

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Time to write this one off I guess.

  20. #170
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    All I can say is that it's still early in the season and Hughes might turn things around.

    Fingers crossed.

  21. #171

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    I don't know why it is so hard for some to accept that Hughes is simply not good enough to be a starting pitcher and belongs in the pen. That's reality.

  22. #172

    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bomber999 View Post
    I don't know why it is so hard for some to accept that Hughes is simply not good enough to be a starting pitcher and belongs in the pen. That's reality.
    Yup... after awhile, trying to force the issue doesn't prove anything. If he's not cutout to start, so be it. Utilize him where he performs the best.
    Roger Maris = single season "natural" home-run record-holder.

  23. #173
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    He just doesnt have starter stuff. The velocity is better then last year but 91-93 isnt good enough when your secondary stuff is average at best. The changeup still does nothing, the curve is loopy and seems to be easily identifiable by opposing hitters (how often do you see that curve fool anyone?) and the cutter is very flat at times. He can never put hitters away and his PC is constantly high where even if he is doing ok, he cant go more then 4-5 innings.

    Watching him pitch, there is just nothing there that screams "good starter". The stats bear it out as per what was tweeted by Curry earlier.

    Lets be honest....other then 2 months in 2010 and that first start in Texas in 2007, he has done nothing as a starter. Its sad that it hasnt worked out, because there was so much hope and expectations....but his stuff is really more cut out for the bullpen.

  24. #174
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Probably gets 3 more starts while Andy builds up arm/leg strength but if they aren't 3 good ones he's probably pen bound.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  25. #175
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    Re: 2012 Phil Hughes Performance Thread

    Should be in the pen.

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