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  1. #3626
    Legend DJ27's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    We're treading pretty close to 'clutch' type talk, which i don't really believe in.

    that said, for most of the game I agree Arod had a significantly better chance to wreck things. Late and close with runners on, Jeter would be my pick over ARod and it often wouldn't have required even a moment's thought.

    As great as he was, ARod had holes in his swing that could be exploited. jeter really didn't...he had no real game plan when he went up there...he was a reactionary hitter, which is often the best thing to be.

    For the record, i don't dispute at all that end to end and taken as a whole, ARod was a better offensive player than Jeter...no doubt.


    But again bottom line (especially if it was me paying the contract), I would send Jete to the plate over A-rod in the clutch 100% of the time when in the clutch.
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  2. #3627
    Legend DJ27's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    Of course there are times when Jeter is feared. High pressure scoring opportunities are definitely those times when he was feared for a long time. What I'm speaking of is being feared whenever you step into the box no matter what the situation and who is on the mound.
    Being a Yankee fan I thought this is what we are all about and what makes DJ special.
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  3. #3628
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ27 View Post
    Being a Yankee fan I thought this is what we are all about and what makes DJ special.
    Of course. And I take nothing away from Jeter as a hitter at all. He's tremendous.
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  4. #3629
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    We're treading pretty close to 'clutch' type talk, which i don't really believe in.

    that said, for most of the game I agree Arod had a significantly better chance to wreck things. Late and close with runners on, Jeter would be my pick over ARod and it often wouldn't have required even a moment's thought.

    As great as he was, ARod had holes in his swing that could be exploited. jeter really didn't...he had no real game plan when he went up there...he was a reactionary hitter, which is often the best thing to be.

    For the record, i don't dispute at all that end to end and taken as a whole, ARod was a better offensive player than Jeter...no doubt.
    That's why I tried to word it in a different way. "High pressure scoring opportunities". I thought it would go over better. We all know Jeter was the guy you wanted in those situations. But if you think about it how many of those situations came about at the right time for Jeter to be at the plate? I know looking at his career as a whole there are plenty of examples but game to game it wasn't something that always happened. A guy that can hurt you by himself at any time is a different kind of weapon and I truly believe that in his mind that's what Arod was thinking. I don't feel he meant any disrespect to his friend in any way. And if any aggravation came out of it I also believe it was due to the attention the comment got and how it was spun as a knock.
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  5. #3630

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    There was some (it was like 15% signifiance, some very specific ways to compare can get below 5%) statistically detectable difference ARod was a worse hitter in clutch situations than his overall averages.*

    Jeter doesn't (he's not better in the clutch either, statistically speaking.)

    ARod historically has still been better in the "clutch" because he's so much better overall as a hitter, career wise.

    ARod's actions make more sense in the context of a socially awkward guy that's too honest. If he were as calculating as some try to paint him, he wouldn't be in this sorry situation to begin with and certainly wouldn't be handling the latest fiasco the way the media is suggesting he is. The media is not. Sources close to drama, but apparently not close to ARod, should be all the tipoff you need. That's basically everyone in Yankees FO.

    *It's probably worth noting Cano, with the exception of one year, has been statistically significantly worse in clutch and playoff series. I am talking about sub 1% significances that say it's basically impossible Cano's the same hitter in the clutch and in the playoffs.

  6. #3631
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    To be honest Derek and Alex are two different type hitters, I would have picked Alex almost always over Derek except for the last couple of years.. I must admit that Derek has come on of late.

    I would say that up until recently Alex had some major battles late in games, usually facing the oppositions closers and best relievers. I know that some of you don't believe or want to hear this but Alex in the last several years had some time been victim to bad calls at the plate. In more games then I care to remember...

    On the other hand Derek being more of a serve the ball the other way hitter with very underrated power, was popular with the fans and umpires alike, and got many more favorable calls at the plate, so I guess it depended on the situation or who you like..

  7. #3632

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Man_With_No_Plan View Post
    A-Rod changed positions for Jeter even though he was the far better SS.
    You make it sound like he changed positions in deference to Jeter's superiority or something. He changed positions to get out of Texas and for a chance at a championship.

  8. #3633
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  9. #3634
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    So let me get this straight.... Alex "embarrassed" the organization because of his alleged involvment with BioGenesis, but Cervelli's involvement wasn't embarrassing?

    Awesome.

    I really cannot stand the media in NY.
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  10. #3635

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    It's not even necessary to defend him at this point. The Yankees are coming off really bad in this whole thing. A-Rod says he's excited to possibly be coming back soon. Yankees yell at him. He backs off with a much more vague, "Could be July, could be next year." Yankees are mad at him. He could say, "No comment" and the Yankees would be mad at him.

  11. #3636
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Man_With_No_Plan View Post
    It's not even necessary to defend him at this point.
    Funnily enough, I agree.
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  12. #3637
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    So let me get this straight.... Alex "embarrassed" the organization because of his alleged involvment with BioGenesis, but Cervelli's involvement wasn't embarrassing?

    Awesome.

    I really cannot stand the media in NY.
    Where does the article say Cervelli's involvement isn't embarrassing? Besides, there's a vast chasm of significance between those two in terms of star value, organizational importance, and confirmation of prior offense.

  13. #3638
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Man_With_No_Plan View Post
    It's not even necessary to defend him at this point. The Yankees are coming off really bad in this whole thing. A-Rod says he's excited to possibly be coming back soon. Yankees yell at him. He backs off with a much more vague, "Could be July, could be next year." Yankees are mad at him. He could say, "No comment" and the Yankees would be mad at him.
    I know I'm in the minority here, but I couldn't disagree more. First off, I'm pretty certain the Yankees would have appreciated "no comment." Or better, yet - since he wasn't asked for this information by the media but tweeted it out on his own - how about let the team communicate progress, focus on your rehab and don't comment at all?

    So according to this article by Klapisch, here's the sequence of events...

    Monday
    • Reports start to circulate that Alex is making fast progress
    • Cashman spends time refuting those rumors
    • Girardi also comments that A-Rod is not ready for games

    Tuesday
    • In spite of NOT being examined by Kelley (who only bumped into A-Rod), in spite of being counseled last time A-Rod/Kelley released information to the press (which was patently incorrect btw), he tweets that he is cleared by his doctor to get back into games - in diametric opposition to what his GM and manager stated just the prior day

    Cashman mishandled this, but A-Rod is not a victim here at least if this information is correct.

  14. #3639
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    So let me get this straight.... Alex "embarrassed" the organization because of his alleged involvment with BioGenesis, but Cervelli's involvement wasn't embarrassing?

    Awesome.

    I really cannot stand the media in NY.
    I was just thinking the same thing. It's disgusting how they are like sharks just circling and waiting for the drops of blood.

  15. #3640
    Bazinga Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    So let me get this straight.... Alex "embarrassed" the organization because of his alleged involvment with BioGenesis, but Cervelli's involvement wasn't embarrassing?
    Exactly.
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  16. #3641

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    After reading Klapisch's article, I'm starting to think ARod might really be done and is trying to come to grips with it. I know it's kind of crazy to figure out somebody motivations for somebody I don't know, but this is incredibly bizarre behavior...even by ARod standards.

    He wasn't even examined by Dr. Kelly but he tweets out that he just cleared him to play? huh? He didn't return Cashman's messages before that transpired? Then the next day he tells them he's scared he wont' be able to run around with his kids?

    I think we're seeing the final sad chapter of ARod...

  17. #3642
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    I posted earlier this year that I was surprised that Cervelli wasn't getting attention Given his massive increase in power and his connection to biogenesis. But I'm not surprised that he's not getting airtime right now. He's on the DL, and he doesn't have the interest that Rodriguez does. Not being mentioned in this specific article doesn't mean the Yankees aren't embarrassed by his association to this scandal.

  18. #3643
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Where does the article say Cervelli's involvement isn't embarrassing? Besides, there's a vast chasm of significance between those two in terms of star value, organizational importance, and confirmation of prior offense.
    Well - has anyone cited anywhere that Cervelli embarrassed the organization?
    I don't think so. Certainly none of the media. Because it doesn't sell any newspapers if they write about Cervelli.

    And this is where the different treatment of Alex compared to other players comes in.

    Nothing has been proven in the BioGenesis case. Nothing should be held against him.
    Conjuring up a story that Alex is trying to get back at the front office is ludicrous.
    But hey - it's sells copy, even if it is false I guess.

    The Yankees and some of the fans are clearly overreacting to a freaking tweet on the internet. A tweet on the internet. In case that's not clear..... A TWEET!
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  19. #3644

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    Well - has anyone cited anywhere that Cervelli embarrassed the organization?
    I don't think so. Certainly none of the media. Because it doesn't sell any newspapers if they write about Cervelli.

    And this is where the different treatment of Alex compared to other players comes in.

    Nothing has been proven in the BioGenesis case. Nothing should be held against him.
    Conjuring up a story that Alex is trying to get back at the front office is ludicrous.
    But hey - it's sells copy, even if it is false I guess.

    The Yankees and some of the fans are clearly overreacting to a freaking tweet on the internet. A tweet on the internet. In case that's not clear..... A TWEET!
    Yeah, you're right about that. It was a tweet.

    I hope ARod doesn't claim to be misquoted on his own tweet.

  20. #3645
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Man_With_No_Plan View Post
    It's not even necessary to defend him at this point. The Yankees are coming off really bad in this whole thing. A-Rod says he's excited to possibly be coming back soon. Yankees yell at him. He backs off with a much more vague, "Could be July, could be next year." Yankees are mad at him. He could say, "No comment" and the Yankees would be mad at him.
    Ok, I am seriously missing something here. A-Rod tweets that a doctor "gave him the green light," and it turns out that he never actually saw this doctor... and the Yankees look really bad?
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  21. #3646

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Well, I suppose his tweet and/or behavior might be more embarrassing to some than a member of the Yankee organization taking up with a lunatic mistress, paying her rent, and writing a referral/ recommendation for her on official Yankee stationary and letterhead, seemingly without authorization.


  22. #3647

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    "A source says..."
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  23. #3648

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    "A source says..."
    ....Alex Rodriquez is a giver cooties.

    If and when ARod retires/leaves the Yankees for good, the cottage industry of discussing "all things ARod" coming to an end is going to be huge void in some folks life.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  24. #3649

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    ....Alex Rodriquez is a giver cooties.

    If and when ARod retires/leaves the Yankees for good, the cottage industry of discussing "all things ARod" coming to an end is going to be huge void in some folks life.
    Joining soap opera forums to discuss Nancy sleeping with Todd while Brad was away visiting his dying mother, and subscribing to Soap Opera Digest might fill the void.


  25. #3650

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Ok, I am seriously missing something here. A-Rod tweets that a doctor "gave him the green light," and it turns out that he never actually saw this doctor... and the Yankees look really bad?
    You got it. They should have just said, "Yes. ARod is ready to play! Even though he's not, he is! The doctors who examined him said he's not, but this other Dr. Kelly who saw him in passing in Florida, says he is! Thank goodness for Twitter or we would never have known our third baseman is ready to come back even though he's not!"

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