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  1. #2651

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Wow, you're not just saying due process and reserve judgment and innocent until proven guilty and all those things we all can agree upon in principle ... you are actually saying you believe the allegations are false and that if you're "wrong" about this you'll admit it. I certainly respect your position but you've got to be in a very small minority on this one.
    Due process and all that should be a given. But I haven't seen anything so far that can lead me to say with any certainty that he did it. Of course he has his past to carry around and his previous admission, and that comes into play. But it's not a smoking gun as far as I'm concerned.
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  2. #2652

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Due process and all that should be a given. But I haven't seen anything so far that can lead me to say with any certainty that he did it. Of course he has his past to carry around and his previous admission, and that comes into play. But it's not a smoking gun as far as I'm concerned.
    Right, but the accusation against A-Rod is supported by past history, motive, informal testimony, and circumstantial evidence. If I'm understanding you correctly, your position is predicated on a counter-accusation -- namely, that this Tony Bosch guy is making stuff up to further his reputation -- a counter-accusation that is not supported by any testimony or circumstantial evidence, only pure speculation.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  3. #2653

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Right, but the accusation against A-Rod is supported by past history, motive, informal testimony, and circumstantial evidence. If I'm understanding you correctly, your position is predicated on a counter-accusation -- namely, that this Tony Bosch guy is making stuff up to further his reputation -- a counter-accusation that is not supported by any testimony or circumstantial evidence, only pure speculation.
    My position isn't predicated on that one scenario-- that's just my best guess. My position would be the same without an alternative theory. I don't know anything for sure, but neither does anyone else here really.

    Like I said-- if he texted this guy repeatedly, just show me the phone records. That seems a simple way to prove the source's story. It's something real as opposed to 'that nickname there means A-Rod'.
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  4. #2654

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    My position isn't predicated on that one scenario-- that's just my best guess. My position would be the same without an alternative theory. I don't know anything for sure, but neither does anyone else here really.

    Like I said-- if he texted this guy repeatedly, just show me the phone records. That seems a simple way to prove the source's story. It's something real as opposed to 'that nickname there means A-Rod'.
    Assuming that authorities are compiling evidence as they build a case against A-Rod, it seems a bit unrealistic to expect that they're going to go public with sufficient detail to satisfy you before the case is actually argued in a court or put before the accused to pressure him into some kind of admission or settlement.

    Or, to the extent that more information does continue to leak into the media, the story is still young. I think most of us are expecting this to snowball. It took years before Lance Armstrong finally admitted it. I believe A-Rod's day (really his second day) is coming.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  5. #2655

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Assuming that authorities are compiling evidence as they build a case against A-Rod, it seems a bit unrealistic to expect that they're going to go public with sufficient detail to satisfy you before the case is actually argued in a court or put before the accused to pressure him into some kind of admission or settlement.

    Or, to the extent that more information does continue to leak into the media, the story is still young. I think most of us are expecting this to snowball. It took years before Lance Armstrong finally admitted it. I believe A-Rod's day (really his second day) is coming.
    It's ok-- I'm willing to wait.
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  6. #2656

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Due process and all that should be a given. But I haven't seen anything so far that can lead me to say with any certainty that he did it. Of course he has his past to carry around and his previous admission, and that comes into play. But it's not a smoking gun as far as I'm concerned.
    So, here's the deal. You must guess whether Arod has or has not been doping since he's been a Yankee.

    If you guess correctly, you win $10 million and an island of your very own in the tropics. Every day on this island you get a foot massage. On Sunday, Kate Upton flies in to do it, on Monday, Scarlett Johanssen has the honor, on Tuesday, it's Beyonce in a grass skirt and a wet tee shirt. And so forth and so on.

    In addition, if you guess correctly you get a helicopter of your own with 'Mr. Coffee' posted on the side and a professional pilot to take you on a moment's notice to Miami or something for dinner if you'd like.

    However, and this is a big 'however', If you guess incorrectly, you must pleasure Rosie O'Donnell each night as washes herself in the tub, eats peanuts and watches the Ellen Show.

    So tell me, Mr. Coffee. Do you think Arod has been doping for the majority of the time as a Yankee?

    Kate Upton is sitting in her panties and awaiting your response.

  7. #2657
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuelson View Post
    Then why all the reports of the Yankees trying to void his contract? Obviously they believe it. They're not trying to void it just because he had a down year last year.
    They would be trying to void it if he got convicted for jaywalking. They would jump at any chance to get out from the last 5 years of this disastrous contract.

    Not to mention at the end of the day, even front office guys eventually get sick of the constant drama too.

  8. #2658

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wileedog View Post
    They would be trying to void it if he got convicted for jaywalking. They would jump at any chance to get out from the last 5 years of this disastrous contract.

    Not to mention at the end of the day, even front office guys eventually get sick of the constant drama too.
    clearly if this were arod's first offense and was still a monster player, the yankees would find ways to see through it all and pay him $30mm a year for the next 5 years. But he's not the same player and it's tiring to everybody.

    Not blaming the attendance issues on Arod alone...there are way too many factors involved with that...but still, going to yankee games is not the same thing any more and arod has something to do with that...which is the opposite effect he had when he first was here.

  9. #2659

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    So, here's the deal. You must guess whether Arod has or has not been doping since he's been a Yankee.

    If you guess correctly, you win $10 million and an island of your very own in the tropics. Every day on this island you get a foot massage. On Sunday, Kate Upton flies in to do it, on Monday, Scarlett Johanssen has the honor, on Tuesday, it's Beyonce in a grass skirt and a wet tee shirt. And so forth and so on.

    In addition, if you guess correctly you get a helicopter of your own with 'Mr. Coffee' posted on the side and a professional pilot to take you on a moment's notice to Miami or something for dinner if you'd like.

    However, and this is a big 'however', If you guess incorrectly, you must pleasure Rosie O'Donnell each night as washes herself in the tub, eats peanuts and watches the Ellen Show.

    So tell me, Mr. Coffee. Do you think Arod has been doping for the majority of the time as a Yankee?

    Kate Upton is sitting in her panties and awaiting your response.
    Since he's been a Yankee? I'd guess yes.

    After he admitted using in 2009 I'd guess no.
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  10. #2660

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Since he's been a Yankee? I'd guess yes.

    After he admitted using in 2009 I'd guess no.
    That's a plausible middle-ground scenario, though of course even that will be enough for a lot of fans to write him off forever.

    Personally I think we'll be lucky if the truth is "only" that he's been lying through his teeth while using PEDs right up to the present day. I worry that this story could go beyond just A-Rod's personal PED use. I worry that all that stuff about how A-Rod was "taking an interest in mentoring the younger players" was really about introducing guys like Melky Cabrera to PEDs. And, in the worst case, guys like Robinson Cano.

    I truly hope it doesn't go there, but I worry that it will.
    Last edited by sweet_lou_14; 02-02-13 at 09:12 AM.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  11. #2661
    Your 2014 NY Yankees JDPNYY's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    What would you expect them to do? They are a business. They have to plan on every contingency. I'd be surprised if the didn't have a 'what do we do if this is true' meeting. That doesn't necessarily mean they believe it-- just that they are at least minimally competent as business people.
    Plus, I haven't seen where the Yankees made a statement that they are trying to void ARod's contract. I may be wrong, but most of the info that has been seen in the Papers has been speculation to sell Papers. Normal Sportswriter stuff.
    Pardon, for us.

  12. #2662

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    I just don't think that A-Rod deserves that much benefit of the doubt. Are we giving that same benefit of the doubt to Melky, Gio, etc.? Would we if it were David Ortiz in this report?

    It's especially hard to do so if the guy(s) in the report has a history of lying about PED use...

  13. #2663

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Plus, I haven't seen where the Yankees made a statement that they are trying to void ARod's contract. I may be wrong, but most of the info that has been seen in the Papers has been speculation to sell Papers. Normal Sportswriter stuff.
    It's not just speculation. ESPN's story here (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...ording-sources) quotes "baseball sources," which usually means someone in the front office. If they made up those quotes and that information, then ESPN is going to be in some hot water. I'm 100% sure it's not just speculation.

  14. #2664

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Since he's been a Yankee? I'd guess yes.

    After he admitted using in 2009 I'd guess no.
    So you think Bosch was sitting there and making up names in his book, naming Arod and Gonzalez and Melky, etc and that the DEA is either part of some kind of conspiracy or just dead wrong in investigating ARod?

    Really?

  15. #2665

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    So, here's the deal. You must guess whether Arod has or has not been doping since he's been a Yankee.

    If you guess correctly, you win $10 million and an island of your very own in the tropics. Every day on this island you get a foot massage. On Sunday, Kate Upton flies in to do it, on Monday, Scarlett Johanssen has the honor, on Tuesday, it's Beyonce in a grass skirt and a wet tee shirt. And so forth and so on.

    In addition, if you guess correctly you get a helicopter of your own with 'Mr. Coffee' posted on the side and a professional pilot to take you on a moment's notice to Miami or something for dinner if you'd like.

    However, and this is a big 'however', If you guess incorrectly, you must pleasure Rosie O'Donnell each night as washes herself in the tub, eats peanuts and watches the Ellen Show.

    So tell me, Mr. Coffee. Do you think Arod has been doping for the majority of the time as a Yankee?

    Kate Upton is sitting in her panties and awaiting your response.
    Wait a minute....

    So these ladies are giving me foot massages? On a remote island, gorgeous woman rubbing my feet, wearing skirts an implying panties only party attire. Could be pretty torturous unless I got to juicedemhoes at least from time to time.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  16. #2666

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    So you think Bosch was sitting there and making up names in his book, naming Arod and Gonzalez and Melky, etc and that the DEA is either part of some kind of conspiracy or just dead wrong in investigating ARod?

    Really?
    What's the DEA have to do with it? The only investigating has been from Miami New Times.

    As far as I know, the DEA isn't involved at all.
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  17. #2667
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuelson View Post
    Then why all the reports of the Yankees trying to void his contract? Obviously they believe it. They're not trying to void it just because he had a down year last year.
    To be fair, the Yanks would love to escape from the burden of ARod's contract - PED's or no PED's. I believe that all the rabble rousing about voiding the contract is just that.....Yanks will have attorneys give it a try, but are keenly aware that it is a lost cause.

    I believe that it is more of a PR pressure play to see if they can eventually wear ARod down and settle somehow. Also, it is priming the fanbase that they have seen the last of ARod.

    Problem is that ARod appears to love attention of any kind, and I do not see him cooperating. Worth a try if you are the club though....
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  18. #2668
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    What's the DEA have to do with it? The only investigating has been from Miami New Times.

    As far as I know, the DEA isn't involved at all.
    There were reports about a federal investigation, but according to espn.com yesterday:

    MLB officials say they believe Bosch is the center of the South Florida doping operation and have urged the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency to open an investigation. But numerous sources contacted by "Outside the Lines" say that they have not been interviewed by federal agents or by MLB investigators, and are not aware of any law enforcement effort to seize material from the now-shuttered Biogenesis office or Bosch's home. MLB officials have turned over information they collected to the DEA. But sources in Florida said they have seen no indication that an investigation has begun. DEA officials have declined to comment on the existence of a case.
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  19. #2669

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Ok. So they turned over records to the DEA, who has not commented at all. I don't know how one would get from there to 'the DEA is part of a conspiracy'.
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  20. #2670

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFan1421 View Post
    So you think Bosch was sitting there and making up names in his book, naming Arod and Gonzalez and Melky, etc and that the DEA is either part of some kind of conspiracy or just dead wrong in investigating ARod?

    Really?
    He did have incentives to do so.

  21. #2671

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Tough for me to say this. I've always been in ARod's corner, so to speak, but it really has started to become amazing how many times this guy can get implicated for PED's or linked to this sort of behavior.

    On one hand, you have to wonder. There has been so much smoke (even in recent years) for there to be no fire. You almost feel that if you believe him, you are an idiot and foolish.

    The other hand, he hasn't really been caught doing anything or failed a test since he 2003 as part of the MLB private test.

    If he has been doing HGH over the past few years, I couldn't blame him on a personal level. I believe it is him, wanting to be healthy, recovery from injuries, hoping to improve his hip(s) and be on the field playing baseball. Without a doubt, baseball is ARod's life, passion and identity. He watches several games everyday and knows much about the history of the game. Way more then say the average ballplayer.

    PED's have such a bad stigma in overall public view and opinion. Saying "PED", "Steroids" or "Human Growth Hormone" almost seems like someone is cursing, invoking the taboo or something evil. I believe this is blindly out of ignorance and will impede on the real benefits of these substances in future medicines or at least the acceptance of them. Without a doubt the proper use of HGH and steroids in everyday life of ordinary people has tremendous benefits to quality of life. I think one day, taking HGH and/or steroids will be almost as common and ordinary as many of the things we take as we age now.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  22. #2672

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoux101 View Post
    Tough for me to say this. I've always been in ARod's corner, so to speak, but it really has started to become amazing how many times this guy can get implicated for PED's or linked to this sort of behavior.

    On one hand, you have to wonder. There has been so much smoke (even in recent years) for there to be no fire. You almost feel that if you believe him, you are an idiot and foolish.

    The other hand, he hasn't really been caught doing anything or failed a test since he 2003 as part of the MLB private test.

    If he has been doing HGH over the past few years, I couldn't blame him on a personal level. I believe it is him, wanting to be healthy, recovery from injuries, hoping to improve his hip(s) and be on the field playing baseball. Without a doubt, baseball is ARod's life, passion and identity. He watches several games everyday and knows much about the history of the game. Way more then say the average ballplayer.

    PED's have such a bad stigma in overall public view and opinion. Saying "PED", "Steroids" or "Human Growth Hormone" almost seems like someone is cursing, invoking the taboo or something evil. I believe this is blindly out of ignorance and will impede on the real benefits of these substances in future medicines or at least the acceptance of them. Without a doubt the proper use of HGH and steroids in everyday life of ordinary people has tremendous benefits to quality of life. I think one day, taking HGH and/or steroids will be almost as common and ordinary as many of the things we take as we age now.
    Off-topic, but by any chance did you see a groundhog today?
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  23. #2673
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Plus, I haven't seen where the Yankees made a statement that they are trying to void ARod's contract. I may be wrong, but most of the info that has been seen in the Papers has been speculation to sell Papers. Normal Sportswriter stuff.
    They really can't do that publicly without risking getting their **** sued off by ARod (without concrete evidence).
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  24. #2674
    Crow,Tony,Joe,Yogi,Riz,2 Joes Tifoso's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoux101 View Post

    PED's have such a bad stigma in overall public view and opinion. Saying "PED", "Steroids" or "Human Growth Hormone" almost seems like someone is cursing, invoking the taboo or something evil. I believe this is blindly out of ignorance and will impede on the real benefits of these substances in future medicines or at least the acceptance of them. Without a doubt the proper use of HGH and steroids in everyday life of ordinary people has tremendous benefits to quality of life. I think one day, taking HGH and/or steroids will be almost as common and ordinary as many of the things we take as we age now.
    If they become "part of the game" expect to see a huge spike in early deaths, cancer, etc. These things are horrible for you (the possible exception being HGH, but the jury is still out on it.)
    -Lou 27 (28 in 2015)
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  25. #2675

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post
    If they become "part of the game" expect to see a huge spike in early deaths, cancer, etc. These things are horrible for you (the possible exception being HGH, but the jury is still out on it.)
    I'm not saying these would be part of the game but eventually, common practice in a vast majority of people's life. It is the future and my flux-capacitor tells no lies.

    Given properly, by properly educated Doctors there are very little costs for tremendous benefits. You would in fact see greater life expectancy and quality of life.

    These huge spikes in death or side effects you speak of are more resulting from the abuse of these things as opposed to the use. There are many medicines and common day items that have great practical uses, but given inappropriate doses or exposure causes many side effects or life threatening / shorting effects.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

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