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  1. #951
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    Why this always turns into a Jeter/ARod thing is beyond me.

    +1

    I never understood why Jeter comes up in this either.
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  2. #952
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Jeter always comes up because he's looked upon as the ultimate postseason performer, and some people like to point out that even with that perception, he's had quite a few goose egg postseasons himself and receives no backlash, contrary to someone like A-Rod. It's actually pretty easy to understand why he's always compared to A-Rod.

  3. #953
    Alright, alright, alright... Big_E's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoVaughnEatsAlot View Post
    Jeter always comes up because he's looked upon as the ultimate postseason performer, and some people like to point out that even with that perception, he's had quite a few goose egg postseasons himself and receives no backlash, contrary to someone like A-Rod. It's actually pretty easy to understand why he's always compared to A-Rod.
    yes, Jeter has had some lousy post-seasons. But...he always gives the perception of trying his best. A-Rod goes up there sometimes, and he just looks lost.

    And for his career in the post-season...

    Jeter:
    154 G
    195 H
    20 HR
    60 RBI
    18 SB
    .309 BA
    .374 OBP
    .465 SLG
    .840 OPS

    all against arguably the best pitchers on the best teams in baseball. His SLG and OPS are HIGHER than his career regular-season numbers. His career BA is close to his regular-season career BA. HR higher than avg.

    A-Rod: Career post-season has a lower BA (by about 25 points), much lower SLG, much lower OPS. You want your #3, #4, #5 guys to do better in the post-season, while A-Rod does worse.

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  4. #954
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

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  5. #955

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Let's all stop the bickering and splitting hairs (although, yes, I know, that's what this place is for!) and just collectively hope that he starts putting good performances out there. As we all know, we don't "need" him, but he'd definitely put us over the top if he can play well.

  6. #956

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    I'm surprised nobody has yet compared Yankees WS winning percentage with A-Rod and without.
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  7. #957

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    The comment posted above was not meant to be serious. That would have been clearer if our poster had not cut out the final paragraph:
    Yep, I understood that it was an attempt at humor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    As far as the comment goes, Arod was completely lost at the plate in 05, 06, 07 and 11. I don't think extra at bats those years would have made any difference. Besides, he was one of the contributing factors as to why the Yankees were eliminated early. Each year brings on a new set of circumstances and shouldn't be weighted equally. At Arod's age and with his deteriorating body, the odds we see a repeat of 2009 are slim to none.
    I agree to some extent that giving equal weight to each postseason, even though one (2009) included many more at-bats, is a valid way (but only one way) to judge him. You are correct that his performance in a given postseason is directly correlated to how many opportunities he ends up getting in that postseason. Generally speaking I think that when people defend a player (not just A-Rod) by always going to the largest available sample, something is gained but something else is lost.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  8. #958

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoVaughnEatsAlot View Post
    Jeter always comes up because he's looked upon as the ultimate postseason performer, and some people like to point out that even with that perception, he's had quite a few goose egg postseasons himself and receives no backlash, contrary to someone like A-Rod. It's actually pretty easy to understand why he's always compared to A-Rod.
    Well, I really do want to avoid making it always about Jeter/A-Rod, but since it was brought up by others first I just want to reiterate my one main point, which is this: A major component of the A-Rod hate is "OMG this guy's done and I can't believe his contract and we're stuck paying him for years to come" ... and Jeter was getting a very similar kind of treatment when he was similarly perceived in 2010 / 2011.

    I agree wholeheartedly with all those who say the #1 thing right now is to root for this guy to do what he's capable of. I would love -- for his sake and ours -- to see him punish a few opposing pitchers over the next couple of weeks.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  9. #959

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    A big problem for this team is A-Rod's bad/phony relationship with the media, which causes unncessary and overblown distractions for the player, who has a perception of being sensitive, and manager that doesn't exactly help our chances of winning. It's so painfully obvious how and who of the local media members who don't get along well with A-Rod and accordingly dump on him more than what should be deemed necessary. If you didn't know any better, you'd have thought the only reason why we lost Game 2 was because A-Rod struck out to end the game or against O'Day earlier, and the reason we didn't win Game 1 by more than 5 was because A-Rod didn't get a hit in that 9th. Just let the man hit and hope for the best, like the other 8 guys in the lineup, regardless of where you hit him.

  10. #960
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Well, I really do want to avoid making it always about Jeter/A-Rod, but since it was brought up by others first I just want to reiterate my one main point, which is this: A major component of the A-Rod hate is "OMG this guy's done and I can't believe his contract and we're stuck paying him for years to come" ... and Jeter was getting a very similar kind of treatment when he was similarly perceived in 2010 / 2011.

    I agree wholeheartedly with all those who say the #1 thing right now is to root for this guy to do what he's capable of. I would love -- for his sake and ours -- to see him punish a few opposing pitchers over the next couple of weeks.
    Amen.

  11. #961
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Well, I really do want to avoid making it always about Jeter/A-Rod, but since it was brought up by others first I just want to reiterate my one main point, which is this: A major component of the A-Rod hate is "OMG this guy's done and I can't believe his contract and we're stuck paying him for years to come" ... and Jeter was getting a very similar kind of treatment when he was similarly perceived in 2010 / 2011.

    I agree wholeheartedly with all those who say the #1 thing right now is to root for this guy to do what he's capable of. I would love -- for his sake and ours -- to see him punish a few opposing pitchers over the next couple of weeks.
    He was getting flack WAY before he was ever perceived as being done. He put up monster numbers in 2005 and was getting booed in the 2005 playoffs, same in 2007. At that point the hate was "OMG this guy is getting paid 29 million and produces in the regular season but not the postseason!" Point is, it's always something with him unfortunately.

    Jeter might have gotten some flack here from the fans, but even when he was struggling in 2010/2011 he didn't even a fraction of the crap from the media or fans in general that A-Rod gets. The only time I remember Jeter ever getting booed was in 2004 (I think) during a horrific stretch he had.

    In the end I just wish, like you, that despite it all, fans would just support their players. He could win the game tonight with a walkoff yet he'd still be booed if he grounded out to short tomorrow night to lose the game. That is the sad fact of A-Rod's career as a Yankee.

  12. #962
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    I think another reason it always becomes an ARod/Jeter discussion has to do with the elevation of reputation over actual performance. As Mark Twain (perhaps apocryphally) said, "Give a man a reputation as an early riser, and he can sleep 'til noon." Rodriguez got off to a slow start in 2004, was booed mercilessly by Yankee fans at every opportunity, and was quickly deemed to be "unclutch." Since then, any big postseason series he has is dismissed by many as an aberration, and every strikeout with men on base as confirmation, because he's already been established as unclutchy.

    Jeter's brought up so often because he's the most familiar opposite case. Right off the bat he earned his clutchy reputation, and since then every big hit or play is seen as another data point confirming his clutchitude; a bad series, a key DP or other ordinary failure tends to be minimized, because we already know how clutch he is.

    It becomes just too easy to set those two in contrast to each other because of how the interaction of expectations, reputation and performance play out so differently with them. That's not likely to change.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  13. #963

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    it's just a typical and easy example to address fan bias. disciplining the ranks.
    always reasonable

  14. #964
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Hey there, things seem to be getting a little crazy on the A-rod front. I have to wonder why they even hired Alex, after all he's never been what you would call a clutch player. My thoughts are that it's not even about winning, because winning don't seem to be enough, when it comes to Alex.

    It seems that the only reason that the Steinbrenners hired Alex was for the homeruns and the record. Not that it really matters that much now, if any fans like him at all they would at least try to understand just how many injuries he's had to deal with of late. The last one being a broken left hand, an injury that would rob a power hitter of his hand strength.

    It seems like the only thing that most fans and the media care about is the huge contract that the Steinbrenners gave Alex, no one knew that his body would break down. I'm pretty sure that he wants to hit a few bombs in the worst way, lets face that it's obvious that only a couple of long HR's would quiet his critics..

    Even after the 2009 playoffs, there was no MVP for Alex yet Phillies Ryan Howard won one for what he did. I'm pretty sure that hurt Alex, and that's why they constantly compare Alex and Derek, because everything Jeter does is showered with love.. It does seem that the NY fans never showed or let Alex know that we wanted him here or needed him.

    I'll finish by saying that the 1 for 9 by Alex is really not all that bad, after all Baltimores Wieters is 1 for 12 and Jones is 1 for 11, their two main guys. Also Baltimore has great pitching and it looks like they have the book on A-rod, aim for the corners and if your close enough the umpires will do the rest. Unhittable pitches or not we want him swinging, just don't strike out!

    OK I've said my piece, and no matter what happens I'll always be a A-rod fan...

  15. #965

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe Frohman View Post
    2009 Is significant because he wasn't just other worldly at the plate, Dude carried the team offensively.

    Its significant because without him this team gets bounced that year.

    what really sets 2009 apart though is that WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP THAT YEAR.

    and whether Yankee fans / arod bashers want to admit it, he was one of the MAIN pieces in that run to a championship. Dude came up with big, clutch, crucial hit after hit.

    I could give a rats ass about post season performances that don't result in a ring.

    Who cares ? What does that Even mean ?

    Those individual stats weren't enough If it didn't result in A championship for your team and franchise.

    So go ahead ... Dismiss 2009 arod haters.

    Still doesn't change the fact that Alex Rodriguez is the man to thank for this franchises latest championship.
    Some Arod supporters want it both ways. They want the 2009 postseason to be all about ARod but then all of the other early round exits are not supposed to be about him.

    I have not heard ONE person say that ARod wasn't one of the "main pieces in that run to the championship". He clearly was, and if MVP for the overall postseason were awarded I don't think anybody would dispute ARod would win it. I'm not a big fan of his, but I'd be the first to say it was him.

    But he wasn't even close to Matsui's production in the WS itself. And while Arod did more, Jeter wasn't far behind in the WS. so to say it was singlehandedly Arod and all about him doesn't make any sense.

    It's very strange that if you state that ARod generally has not been a good postseason performer for the Yankees and has had some terrible series....more than a first ballot hall of famer should have...then that makes you an ARod hater. He's had a curiously high number of postseason games and plate appearances where he's been a non-factor. If fans get annoyed by this and state that they want to give more atbats to people like Cano, they are "Arod haters"?

  16. #966

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I think another reason it always becomes an ARod/Jeter discussion has to do with the elevation of reputation over actual performance. As Mark Twain (perhaps apocryphally) said, "Give a man a reputation as an early riser, and he can sleep 'til noon." Rodriguez got off to a slow start in 2004, was booed mercilessly by Yankee fans at every opportunity, and was quickly deemed to be "unclutch." Since then, any big postseason series he has is dismissed by many as an aberration, and every strikeout with men on base as confirmation, because he's already been established as unclutchy.

    Jeter's brought up so often because he's the most familiar opposite case. Right off the bat he earned his clutchy reputation, and since then every big hit or play is seen as another data point confirming his clutchitude; a bad series, a key DP or other ordinary failure tends to be minimized, because we already know how clutch he is.

    It becomes just too easy to set those two in contrast to each other because of how the interaction of expectations, reputation and performance play out so differently with them. That's not likely to change.
    What I find interesting is there seems to be a line drawn in the sand with some people and they are either an ARod fan or a Jeter fan and never the twain shall meet. I get that people will be a fan of a particular player but I never understood knocking one player down to build the other up. (and I've seen that go both ways between ARod and Jeter). They're both here, and I want both of them to perform well. Play ball!
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  17. #967
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Well, I really do want to avoid making it always about Jeter/A-Rod, but since it was brought up by others first I just want to reiterate my one main point, which is this: A major component of the A-Rod hate is "OMG this guy's done and I can't believe his contract and we're stuck paying him for years to come" ... and Jeter was getting a very similar kind of treatment when he was similarly perceived in 2010 / 2011.

    I agree wholeheartedly with all those who say the #1 thing right now is to root for this guy to do what he's capable of. I would love -- for his sake and ours -- to see him punish a few opposing pitchers over the next couple of weeks.
    Totally agree Lou.

  18. #968

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    What I find interesting is there seems to be a line drawn in the sand with some people and they are either an ARod fan or a Jeter fan and never the twain shall meet. I get that people will be a fan of a particular player but I never understood knocking one player down to build the other up. (and I've seen that go both ways between ARod and Jeter). They're both here, and I want both of them to perform well. Play ball!
    I hear what you're saying, and even as a huge Jeter fan, I acknowledge that our support of him is signficiantly enhanced because he's homegrown, says all the right things and was a rookie as one of the best Yankee eras began.

    But I think there's something else at play. I think fans can accept winning and losing, and accept that luck and streaks and all that play into it during the postseason. Often times, however, ARod in the postseason has looked helpless and completely psyched out. None of us can get in his head and we all know it can turn around quickly, but how many times is ARod the last person we want up at the plate in a big spot?

    I think there's something beyond the stats here. Even when Jeter is slumping and even when his numbers aren't much better than ARod's in a given playoff, we sense, and I think it's largely justified, that he'll be able to at least compete. Even in a slump or with his timing off, we get the sense he'll find a way to maximize the chance of a good outcome.

    ARod, however, often seems the opposite. That he has no chance unless he runs into one.

    Hard to prove or quantify this, but with your life on the line and a late inning tied game...and assume both are having a tough series...who do you want up there with runners on?

  19. #969
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    A Rod should have had a hit in the first inning. He was robbed and it became a DP. Meanwhile Swisher seems to get a pass and he has been much worse than A Rod in the Post Season.

  20. #970
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    What I find interesting is there seems to be a line drawn in the sand with some people and they are either an ARod fan or a Jeter fan and never the twain shall meet. I get that people will be a fan of a particular player but I never understood knocking one player down to build the other up. (and I've seen that go both ways between ARod and Jeter). They're both here, and I want both of them to perform well. Play ball!
    I like 'em both.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  21. #971

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I like 'em both.
    They're no Melky
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  22. #972

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    They're no Melky
    Apparently Melky was no Melky either.
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  23. #973
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Apparently Melky was no Melky either.
    He just needs more time.
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    - Barry Manilow

  24. #974

    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    We should have a mini prediction contest on where A-Rod will bat in the order tonight. I think Girardi has opened the door to moving him down.

    I've said before that given the fact that Tex was batting sixth up to now, sixth is the lowest Girardi can bat A-Rod without the perception of some kind of insult, etc. I think it will be fifth or sixth with the only question being whether he wants A-Rod in front of Swisher or behind him.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  25. #975
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    Re: 2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    We should have a mini prediction contest on where A-Rod will bat in the order tonight. I think Girardi has opened the door to moving him down.

    I've said before that given the fact that Tex was batting sixth up to now, sixth is the lowest Girardi can bat A-Rod without the perception of some kind of insult, etc. I think it will be fifth or sixth with the only question being whether he wants A-Rod in front of Swisher or behind him.
    If I were Joe, I'd move Cano to 3rd, and since Tex seems to be hitting/getting on base, I'd move him to 4th. I'd put A-rod 5th with Swisher 6th (round it out with Grandy, Martin, Ibanez).

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