2012 Alex Rodriguez Performance Thread

[awy]

i do.

[sweet_lou_14]

the fact that the arod thread is filled with bashing posts and there's not many in jeter's thread despite like 2 errors and stuff, does form a significant fact.

Jeter's two misplays (I believe only one was technically scored an error) didn't lead to runs. Ironically, the only reason why in one case was A-Rod's impressive deke. Also Jeter did at least drive in one run. Alex meanwhile was bitten by the BABIP gods in the first inning, or he'd have driven one in too (and the whole game might have played out differently).

I know that for some people it really is about loving one player and hating the other. Maybe this is even true for the fan base as a whole. But A-Rod's pattern of playing below expectations is pretty significant and pronounced. His margin for error is slim. I'm a bit shocked at the fans' short memory with respect to his godlike 2009 postseason, but he has been terrible since the most recent injury and that's what's fresh in fans' minds.

Most importantly -- and this is the one thing the two players have in common -- is that right now there is a feeling that A-Rod will never again be the same player he once was. This (and the assumption that the Yankees will be paying him to suck for five more years) fuels the anger as much as anything. Despite all the love Jeter gets, when the fan base came to a similar conclusion about Jeter in 2010 / 2011, his thread was littered with harsh criticism as well.

[awy]

did you know they weren't going to lead to any runs before the rest of the game happened?

and yea jeter will not be the same player either.

[unfamous loser]

this A-Rod/Jeter stuff is so 2008.

[LIYanks]

Why are we even bringing Jeter's performance into this thread?

As far as I am concerned, both Jeter and A-Rod were superstars in their prime. Jeter has somehow managed to defy the aging process this year. A-Rod is coming off a very sub-par year for him.

Going forward, I really believe things will balance out meaning that Jeter won't perform like he did this year and same goes for A-Rod.

As of today (the day after the epic loss in Baltimore), A-Rod clearly has not lived up to our expectations. There is no need to compare him to Jeter.

[awy]

this A-Rod/Jeter stuff is so 2008.

nothing bad about that.

18-1

[NYIndian2005]

I don't even get mad anymore when he comes to bat. I just feel sorry for him. I fully know he is going to strike out. I am already feeling bad for the boos he is going to hear at NYS when he strikes out in game 3.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Memo to A-Rod: Look at your 2009 playoff ABs. Hit the ball to the opposite field. Remember that.

Also, remember this quote: "Form is temporary, class is permanent."

[YankeeFan1421]

I don't even get mad anymore when he comes to bat. I just feel sorry for him. I fully know he is going to strike out. I am already feeling bad for the boos he is going to hear at NYS when he strikes out in game 3.

I admittedly never warmed to ARod, and I know that's true of a whole lot of Yankee fans. But I never thought he didn't care or didn't work at it.

It's true, I don't know why people boo him...or most any athlete really. If he wasn't trying or acting like a jerk or something, I could see it. But if he can't hit anymore, he can't hit anymore. Booing him isn't going to speed up his bat.

[GordonGecko]

I admittedly never warmed to ARod, and I know that's true of a whole lot of Yankee fans. But I never thought he didn't care or didn't work at it.

It's true, I don't know why people boo him...or most any athlete really. If he wasn't trying or acting like a jerk or something, I could see it. But if he can't hit anymore, he can't hit anymore. Booing him isn't going to speed up his bat.

I think the whole my cousin Uri the drug dealer & the juicing has a lot to do with cover for people to lay into him

[2JAY]

and yea jeter will not be the same player either.

And I get the impression that you would love that which is sad. As far as I can tell, the vast majority here want Arod to succeed and be that better player. Nobody is expecting the same Arod in his prime but we are also not expecting Alvaro Espinoza either. This Yankee team is so much better when Arod, who is hitting 3rd, is driving in runs and is a threat with the bat. And I cannot understand why the disappointment over how bad he has been translates into a Jeter comparison at this point.

[sweet_lou_14]

did you know they weren't going to lead to any runs before the rest of the game happened?

Huh? No, but that's not what's being discussed here. We're talking about why A-Rod has been trashed over the past 24 hours and Jeter hasn't.

and yea jeter will not be the same player either.

Again, not relevant to what I said. Right now A-Rod is being lambasted, and one of the reasons is the fans' belief that he will never be the same again. Fans had that same belief about Jeter in 2010 and early 2011, and (at least on this forum) treated him similarly.

When you don't take the time to read what people say before responding, you come across as someone who's just deliberately trolling.

[JSG]

According to LoHud, Girardi may drop Alex in the batting order.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2012/10/0...ineup-shakeup/

more on this topic via ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8481144/2012-mlb-playoffs-time-move-new-york-yankees-alex-rodriguez-order


http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8483455/new-york-yankees-joe-girardi-rule-dropping-alex-rodriguez-lineup

[Abe Frohman]

im Really getting tired of hearing about .A-Rod's 2009. If we are going to honor him for everything he did in that postseason....and his first two series were otherworldly and his Series very good, no doubt...then are the other 9 series he's been in as a Yankee not supposed to matter? I'm not saying you're doing this here, but one postseason, as great as it was, doesn't just trump a bunch of other failures.

In addition to 2009, he had a great ALDS in 2004. So four of the twelve series have been outstanding. The other eight, including this one so far, have been miserable.

Sitting here three years later we either care about the team and want to see them play well and win or we don't really care because we always have 2009.

2009 Is significant because he wasn't just other worldly at the plate, Dude carried the team offensively.

Its significant because without him this team gets bounced that year.

what really sets 2009 apart though is that WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP THAT YEAR.

and whether Yankee fans / arod bashers want to admit it, he was one of the MAIN pieces in that run to a championship. Dude came up with big, clutch, crucial hit after hit.

I could give a rats ass about post season performances that don't result in a ring.

Who cares ? What does that Even mean ?

Those individual stats weren't enough If it didn't result in A championship for your team and franchise.

So go ahead ... Dismiss 2009 arod haters.

Still doesn't change the fact that Alex Rodriguez is the man to thank for this franchises latest championship.

[89FoxBody]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...d-and-october/


Great comment from that article:

-In 1997 at 21 A-Rod was to young to know he should be nervous.
-In 2000 now a veteran and one of the best players in the game there was no pressure because people in Seattle don’t care about baseball and the rest of the country was asleep while they played.
-2004 After three years of last place baseball, now the highest paid player in the game, in the biggest market, for the most scrutinized team, had great success in the first series hitting .421/.476/.737 must have gotten lucky.
-But of course the pressure was way more when it was vs. the SOX, so Alex responded by folding to the pressure and having 4 great games. But then with a 3-1 lead and all of his success to bank on he could only manage 1 measley single in 3 games because the pressure of playoff baseball had finally gotten to him.
-2005 Now after having played in what was probably the biggest pressure cooker series I can ever remember, A-Rod was to scared to get a hit and decided he was going to just walk, his .435 OBP doesn’t tell the story, he sucked because he didn’t hit the ball.
-2006 Now pitchers realized he wasn’t going to swing because he was scared of the playoffs and mowed him down at will.
-2007 After 05 and 06 the NY media felt bad for Alex and laid off of him, he responded by only being mildly disappointing.
-2008 Alex was so afraid of the post-season he stayed home.
-2009 The Yankees had sucked for so long (they hadn’t won since 2000!!!) there was no longer any pressure and Alex killed it. Until the WS when some pressure creeped back in and he didn’t even post an OPS over 1.000.
-2010-12 Yankee expectations are back after the WS win, Alex predictably caves.

[awy]

sweetlou i'm not in the mood of explaining probability to you so i'll just say that you are wrong and i'm right and call it a night

[awy]

anyway your claim is akin to "this wrong narrative is very effective therefore we are kind of justified in believing in it."

uh no

whether jeter's errors led to any runs depends on what happened after his error. if something else had happened, maybe his error is worth a run, 2 runs or 5 runs. the expected run lost of his error however is pretty stable.

[NYRangers79]

btw this is not to say that you shouldn't love jeter. it is to say if you form your love of a player based on their status in team history, then you have to be fair in that love.

the fact that the arod thread is filled with bashing posts and there's not many in jeter's thread despite like 2 errors and stuff, does form a significant fact.

i am tired of spelling out these obvious points though. stop not getting things

Jeter is 4 for 9 with 2 Runs, and 1 RBI, he has been contributing. Unlike A-rod.

Why this always turns into a Jeter/ARod thing is beyond me.

or a Jeter/Cano thing. I think people should be going after Swisher more who has horrible numbers in the post season. His OPS is like a low .600, while Jeter and A-rod are a mid .800

[sweet_lou_14]

sweetlou i'm not in the mood of explaining probability to you so i'll just say that you are wrong and i'm right and call it a night

Probability is not even remotely the topic I was discussing.

But the most hilarious thing about this post is that you have no idea who I am or what my background is or just how much more I know about mathematics than most people on earth, possibly including you.

Though you do seem like a bright kid.

[sweet_lou_14]

anyway your claim is akin to "this wrong narrative is very effective therefore we are kind of justified in believing in it."

uh no

whether jeter's errors led to any runs depends on what happened after his error. if something else had happened, maybe his error is worth a run, 2 runs or 5 runs. the expected run lost of his error however is pretty stable.

Try reading more. You seem to completely misunderstand the point of my posts. I never once said anyone is justified in believing any narrative.

[sweet_lou_14]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...d-and-october/


Great comment from that article:

The article itself is much more interesting than that comment. The most interesting thing in the comments is this one:

I think one of the main reasons for the unfair treatment of A-Rod is that his poor performances in the postseason (while still covering a small number of PA’s relative to his overall body of postseason work) have covered many years because they often occurred when the Yankees were knocked out relatively early in the playoffs. People don’t realize that the 15 games he played in 2009 (for example) should be weighted about equally to the 18 games he played in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2011. Unfortunately, people see this as “1 year of success” vs “4 years of failure.”

[teknetic]

The article itself is much more interesting than that comment. The most interesting thing in the comments is this one:

I think one of the main reasons for the unfair treatment of A-Rod is that his poor performances in the postseason (while still covering a small number of PA’s relative to his overall body of postseason work) have covered many years because they often occurred when the Yankees were knocked out relatively early in the playoffs. People don’t realize that the 15 games he played in 2009 (for example) should be weighted about equally to the 18 games he played in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2011. Unfortunately, people see this as “1 year of success” vs “4 years of failure.”

That's because those "people" are dumb.

[sweet_lou_14]

That's because those "people" are dumb.

"Those people" are the vast majority of Yankees fans. Even those fans who are sympathetic to A-Rod are, generally speaking, going to agree with the basic premise of "A-Rod has had only one good post-season for the Yankees." Except for those who remember his 2004 postseason through Game 3 of the ALCS. Those people will say one and a half.

That's why this is an interesting comment -- it represents an opportunity to educate people and perhaps give them a better perspective.

[Benefactor]

The article itself is much more interesting than that comment. The most interesting thing in the comments is this one:

I think one of the main reasons for the unfair treatment of A-Rod is that his poor performances in the postseason (while still covering a small number of PA’s relative to his overall body of postseason work) have covered many years because they often occurred when the Yankees were knocked out relatively early in the playoffs. People don’t realize that the 15 games he played in 2009 (for example) should be weighted about equally to the 18 games he played in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2011. Unfortunately, people see this as “1 year of success” vs “4 years of failure.”

He really brings this on himself. It all comes down to money and this "I am better than you" arogant attitude he walks around with. If it didn't, their would be an awful lot of swisher smack going around. And surprisingly, all this arod talk has also taken the spotlight of teixeira who hasn't hit a lick in the postseason since he got here. But I guess if you're going to demand big bucks, fans want you to pay big dividends and more often than not, Arod has failed when it's counted most. I give him props for 2004 and 2009, but this is a beatup version of the former and it's only unfortunate we'll have to endure another 5 years of this nonsense.

As far as the comment goes, Arod was completely lost at the plate in 05, 06, 07 and 11. I don't think extra at bats those years would have made any difference. Besides, he was one of the contributing factors as to why the Yankees were eliminated early. Each year brings on a new set of circumstances and shouldn't be weighted equally. At Arod's age and with his deteriorating body, the odds we see a repeat of 2009 are slim to none.

[JL25and3]

The article itself is much more interesting than that comment. The most interesting thing in the comments is this one:

I think one of the main reasons for the unfair treatment of A-Rod is that his poor performances in the postseason (while still covering a small number of PA’s relative to his overall body of postseason work) have covered many years because they often occurred when the Yankees were knocked out relatively early in the playoffs. People don’t realize that the 15 games he played in 2009 (for example) should be weighted about equally to the 18 games he played in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2011. Unfortunately, people see this as “1 year of success” vs “4 years of failure.”

The comment posted above was not meant to be serious. That would have been clearer if our poster had not cut out the final paragraph:

This is the only possible explanation. Not that this is all the random ups and downs that come in short series and that his .867 career OPS in the playoffs shows that he’s been really good no matter when the game is.