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  1. #1
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  2. #2
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    I hate articles that find the negative side to a story like Rivera.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  3. #3
    NYYF Legend


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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    I think this is more propaganda from the diaper industry, whose sales have suffered tremendously due to Rivera.

  4. #4

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Nothing particularly new or noteworthy about what the guy is saying.

  5. #5

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Yeah, I had to comment back.

    Anyone would be lucky to have him for that price in my opinion.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  6. #6

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Well he's not wrong. One inning relievers are way overpaid.

  7. #7

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooligan Tavarez View Post
    Well he's not wrong. One inning relievers are way overpaid.
    I think it's quite a bit deeper then he suggests.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  8. #8

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    What does a vampire know about baseball anyway?

  9. #9

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    If you can get outs in the 9th in New York you deserve top dollar

  10. #10

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    I'm glad they overpaid for the "sure thing" instead of entering Spring Training for the past decade+ hoping to stumble upon the next Kimbrel, Axford, etc. I'm sure those guys will be the next Rivera just like Gagne and Balloon Knot Mouth. I get his point but it has a "hey look at me everybody" feel to it.

  11. #11

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    For a team that is always in the playoffs, using 7% of it's payroll on a shutdown reliever is a good investment. The extra money is well worth the reliability at the most unreliable position.

  12. #12

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    this is said about the guy with the most career postseason wpa by far.
    always reasonable

  13. #13
    werkt fir mee Huktonfonix's Avatar
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    I tend to tune out when someone compares pre-arb players to free agent contracts. I'm sure any GM in baseball would be happy to give Craig Kimbrell a raise on his 2011 salary if he could test the market this year.

    It's also pretty silly to say that Rivera was worth "only" 3.5 WAR last year and then that he was "only" worth 2 more wins than League. If his point is that 12 million more in salary should buy more than 2 wins, fine (although I think that's close to market value), but a 1.2 WAR and 3.5 WAR player are not roughly equivalent by any stretch of the imagination.

    Finally he misses some obvious points about marginal wins and the Yankees finances. I agree completely with the idea that the importance and value of any closer, including the GOAT and my favorite player, is hugely overblown, and that having an elite closer is a complete waste of resources for a team with other roster holes to fill (the Royals should have traded Soria a long time ago if they weren't ever going to start him), but it's not as if the Yankees could easily add 2 wins elsewhere on the roster if they let Dave Robertson close for league minimum. They've pretty much acquired the best available position player every time they've had an opening in the starting lineup, and the starting rotation hasn't been thin because they've spent too much on the bullpen. In fact, they've burned money on the bullpen specifically because they've been rebuffed while trying to spend on the rotation.

    I realize I've been trolled by this piece, but I am genuinely wondering now: can anyone think of a way the Yankees could have spent Rivera's current contract to-date that would have added more wins? I'm sure there have been a few instances of guys signing "prove something" deals that turned out to be a huge bargain in hindsight (Berkman comes to mind), but I'm talking about obvious upgrades, not hindsight.
    42 is the answer

    Gets to see even more of AJ Burnett now!

  14. #14

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    One major flaw in his analysis was his 95% figure. He stated that teams leading going into the ninth inning win 95% of the time. The pertinent figure is not just the winning percentage but the winning percentage IN SAVE SITUATIONS. That is certainly less than 95%. The misuse of that stat makes his point misleading.
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh

  15. #15
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    I don't have any problem with saying that Rivera is overpaid. He is - way over market value, even taking into account how great he is. I just don't have a problem with his being overpaid, either. As long as he wants to play, they should keep overpaying him.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  16. #16
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    I remember a maxim of a famous book collector, who said, "You should never hesitate to pay too much—even a great deal too much—for a really rare book."

  17. #17

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    this is said about the guy with the most career postseason wpa by far.
    Very cool, do you have a link to the top 10 or whatever?
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  18. #18
    Emotional Warrior BroadwayBomber55's Avatar
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Very cool, do you have a link to the top 10 or whatever?
    http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...postseason-wpa

    It's not the 27 World Championships that drive the New York Yankees. It's the 28th.
    Every year is The Year. Go Yankees.

  19. #19
    Don't call it a comeback False1's Avatar
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Quote Originally Posted by BroadwayBomber55 View Post
    I'm not going to try and diminish this at all because I think he has been one of the most consistently important playoff contributers I've ever had the pleasure to root for, but just proactively mentioning that some doubters will call out that this stat is cumulative and Mo has had his fair share of playoff appearances.

    And I agree with just about everyone here. Is he overpaid? That's a pretty easy argument to make. If he was on the A's his $15MM would be an absolute waste. But for this team, given what he means to the Yankees in the past and particularly in the playoffs where everything is magnified in terms of value, I have ZERO doubt that the Yankees will gladly extend him for another $15MM if he shows no sign of slowing down and wants to come back for '13.

    In other words, regardless of what this guy blogs he's worth it to the people that matter.

  20. #20

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I'm not going to try and diminish this at all because I think he has been one of the most consistently important playoff contributers I've ever had the pleasure to root for, but just proactively mentioning that some doubters will call out that this stat is cumulative and Mo has had his fair share of playoff appearances.
    yea, but that's a lot of innings we are talking about here. it is dependent on his opportunities of course, but even against replacement that's a lot of production in key spots. i don't think the value of those postseason wins can be diminished.
    always reasonable

  21. #21
    Devoted Member
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Ask the 1997 Cleveland Indians and 2011 Texas Rangers (just for starters) what Mariano Rivera is worth. Yeah, that 9th inning save is guaranteed alright.
    Last edited by Kentucky Bomber; 02-22-12 at 01:17 PM.
    Mays played baseball. Mantle was baseball.

  22. #22
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Also missing in the analysis is how much Mariano brings in Merchandise and other memorabilia sales, how he has helped the Yankees reach the postseason 16 times and how he participated in bringing all that extra cash to the Yankees and baseball; how he is a fan drawing card helping increase ticket sales; how his presence and the possibility of him coming into the games in the late innings keeps fans from leaving the game as early as they would thus helping concession and merchandise sales.

    His value to the club transcends his stats.
    The Steinbrenner family are smart business people and they use money to make money. Just look how they formed the YES network and developed it into a $3-4 BILLION asset.
    No Mariano is worth every penny.

    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  23. #23

    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Hi Im a nobody and I want people to talk about my article. Loser

  24. #24
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yanke...lQKspoSIg0vI1N

    This is why he's overpaid and it's fine with me.

  25. #25
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Vanriper says Rivera is overpaid

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yanke...lQKspoSIg0vI1N

    This is why he's overpaid and it's fine with me.
    To go along with what Andy said, Rivera is important to the Yankee brand name - helping significantly in both creating it and maintaining it. The actual merchandising might not matter that much, since it's split among the 30 ML teams, but marketing the brand has been a key to their financial success.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

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