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  1. #401
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with what he said. I think he has hit the ball harder than your run-of-the-mill <.200 hitter generally does. He probably has had some bad luck. I don't see him excusing it here though. I'm sure Girardi would rather see a bloop hit than a loud out for Martin all day every day. Just appears to be commenting on what is probably directionally accurate.
    That's probably true. He's hitting the ball more like a .220 hitter than a .195 hitter.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  2. #402

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Thats nice that bit of intensity he had going before getting lifted for Granderson as a PH has carried over to a nice game.
    "A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."

    I love baseball in general and the Yankees just happen to be my favorite team since I knew what baseball was.

  3. #403
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Now comes the insanely hot September that leads to his next contract
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  4. #404
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    That's probably true. He's hitting the ball more like a .220 hitter than a .195 hitter.
    .211 BABIP, .203 BA. He's about where he should be.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  5. #405

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    big HR tonight, at least.

  6. #406

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Now comes the insanely hot September that leads to his next contract

    He is earning more leverage for sure. I think being under .200 might have played a role in getting him motivated.

    I will take it whatever it is. Team could use a spark. I hope it carries over.
    "A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."

    I love baseball in general and the Yankees just happen to be my favorite team since I knew what baseball was.

  7. #407
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by unfamous loser View Post
    big HR tonight, at least.
    And big double. Three RBI-night.

  8. #408
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    .211 BABIP, .203 BA. He's about where he should be.
    An average BABIP is around .290, and a consistently high or low BABIP is very difficult to maintain.

    Read more: How to Calculate Babip | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5137114_calc...#ixzz25ebWsOiw
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  9. #409

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    He lives!

  10. #410
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    An average BABIP is around .290, and a consistently high or low BABIP is very difficult to maintain.

    Read more: How to Calculate Babip | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5137114_calc...#ixzz25ebWsOiw
    That's talking about BABIP for pitchers, not for hitters. BABIP is often consistently high for very good hitters, consistently low for very bad ones.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  11. #411

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Not .213 low and almost never .350 high.

    Even extreme pull hitters hitting into the shift bottom out around .250.

    Martin is not that.

  12. #412

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    i'd say it's more about whatever hidden injury he's had to play through rather than mere luck. stretches without any power are telling. martin has some power and if he's going 20 games without a long fly he's probably hurt.
    always reasonable

  13. #413

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Came up HUGE in what I'll say was a "must" win game, he deserves his props for that.

  14. #414

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    That happened right before the all star break. He needed rest.

    Even with that power outage for 20 games, his HR/FB is at a career high this year, suggesting he's hitting the ball pretty hard.

    Imagine if he actually got the rest he needs... or just a little bit mediocre (instead of atrocious) luck with BABIP.

    Also keep in mind teams have access to hit/fx data. If the ball is coming off Martin's bat at lower velocities, the FO would know.

  15. #415
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    Not .213 low and almost never .350 high.

    Even extreme pull hitters hitting into the shift bottom out around .250.

    Martin is not that.
    You're already talking about numbers well out of the .290 range. In general, it's not correct to apply the pitcher's BABIP argument to hitters.

    The main reason it's difficult to sustain a very low BABIP is that hitters that bad don't last long. A very high BABIP is hard to sustain because hitters that good are rare. The best contact hitters do it, though - Ichiro! has a career BABIP of .347, and Jeter's is .354.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  16. #416
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    .211 BABIP, .203 BA. He's about where he should be.
    Actually, the .211 BABIP suggests that he's not about where he should be, particularly when you look at (yes, I know this is imperfect but still directionally worthwhile to note) his LD% is right around his career norm and higher than last year. His walk rates are good, his isop is good (actually right about his career high). People tend to remember the weak grounders to the left side and the ABs where he looks completely overmatched more so than loud outs. He's not a .280 hitter anymore to be sure, but I think he has had some bad luck this year.

  17. #417

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    The lowest BABIP recorded by any player with at least 3000PAs since 1950 is .239 by Wayne Gross.

  18. #418

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    When Wayne Gross batted .206 on the season in 1984, he at least had the decency to get on base at a .346 clip.


  19. #419
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    The lowest BABIP recorded by any player with at least 3000PAs since 1950 is .239 by Wayne Gross.
    Again, that's not because it's difficult to sustain a low BABIP. It's just difficult to sustain a low BABIP and remain in the major leagues.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  20. #420

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    And again, you don't seem to understand how abnormally low .213 BABIP is.

    Even if you lower the PA requirements to 500 and count only pitchers (who would not be sent down due to bad hitting), Martin would be in the bottom quartile of that group.

    I find it hard to believe Martin is hitting worse than ~75% of pitchers. *

    *Don Newcombe's 93WRC+, Don Larsens 80WRC+, and Earl Wilson's 79WRC+ are top 3 in this group.

  21. #421
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    And again, you don't seem to understand how abnormally low .213 BABIP is.

    Even if you lower the PA requirements to 50 and count only pitchers (who would not be sent down due to bad hitting), Martin would be in the bottom quartile of that group.

    I find it hard to believe Martin is hitting worse than ~75% of pitchers.
    No, I understand how much of an outlier that is. He's not realistically that bad, nor is he realistically a sub-.200 hitter.

    I still maintain the point that it's not appropriate to talk about BABIP for batters in the same terms as for pitchers. Batters have a good deal of control over it, and it reflects much more actual ability (as opposed to luck) than it does with pitchers. With better luck, Martin would probably be hitting more like .225-.230 with a BABIP more in the .240-.250 range. The rest is due to bad hitting.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  22. #422

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    The break down of his LD, GB, pull, center, oppo, and FB%s don't support he's hitting worse (or even differently) than historical norms. The HR/FB certainly isn't supported by more weakly hit balls either.

    Even if you don't buy that, with just the adjustments you suggest, Martin's more luck-neutral WRC+ is just over 100.

  23. #423
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    That's talking about BABIP for pitchers, not for hitters. BABIP is often consistently high for very good hitters, consistently low for very bad ones.
    It's still calculated the same way and the argument you have been making can apply to pitchers and hitters.

    Grizy and False went into better detail on my opinion.
    Fistpumping like a champion.

  24. #424
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    If Martin wants to have his only hot streak during these last three weeks of the season, I'm OK with that. 3-run bomb.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  25. #425
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    It's still calculated the same way and the argument you have been making can apply to pitchers and hitters.

    Grizy and False went into better detail on my opinion.
    No, it doesn't apply equally to pitchers and hitters. The original idea was that pitchers had virtually no control over what happened to batted balls, that BABIP was almost entirely a matter of luck. That was modified over time - some pitchers have some control - but it still formed one of the bases for FIP and the like.

    Batters' BABIP has significantly more to do with ability and less with luck than pitchers' BABIP. Good contact hitters maintain high BABIP; bad hitters maintain low BABIP.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

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