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  1. #251
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    Uh, yes. As you warned, SSS and there were other things, as I am sure you're totally aware of, going on that led to those results.
    Ah so when reality doesn't mesh with theory, ignore reality?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  2. #252

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Ah so when reality doesn't mesh with theory, ignore reality?
    Huh, you don't really understand the numbers in play if you think that's proof Martin's pitch framing isn't that valuable.

    They are well within what could be expected of the small margins at play here.

    You'd be better off arguing Martins' game calling is probably horrible for him (this year) to produce such horrible results relative to Stewart.

  3. #253

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  4. #254
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    Huh, you don't really understand the numbers in play if you think that's proof Martin's pitch framing isn't that valuable.

    They are well within what could be expected of the small margins at play here.

    You'd be better off arguing Martins' game calling is probably horrible for him (this year) to produce such horrible results relative to Stewart.
    I do think pitch framing is a skill and a valuable one at that. I just dispute that it is worth 70 runs over a 3 year period.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  5. #255
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.
    The problem is there are many indicators above and beyond the pitch framing study that show Martin has pretty much been garbage this year and not just offensively.

    He already has 4 PBs, 2 short of his career high set in 2008 when he caught 149 games.
    His 27 WPs in 66 games (.41/g) are 15% above his career aveage rate (.35/g).
    His 23% CS is worst of his career and only the 2nd time he's been below league average.

    And others have already questioned this stat but I'll throw it out there anyway cERA stweart - 2.96, Martin 4.03.

    He may still be framing the ball well but that seems to be the only thing he's doing right this year.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  6. #256
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.
    It's perfectly possible to embrace "metrics" (just a fancy words for stats) without embracing them uncritically. Just because there's a metric doesn't make it important or even valuable, even if you embrace the concept.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  7. #257
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I do think pitch framing is a skill and a valuable one at that. I just dispute that it is worth 70 runs over a 3 year period.
    I can't prove or discredit it, but I also can't count how many times I watched Posada not even try to frame a pitch, or drop what should have been a called strike, and that led to bad news on the scoreboard. 70 runs over a 3 year period actually doesn't sound all that shocking to me.

  8. #258
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    It's perfectly possible to embrace "metrics" (just a fancy words for stats) without embracing them uncritically. Just because there's a metric doesn't make it important or even valuable, even if you embrace the concept.
    It's also interesting to me to disentangle pitch framing from a catcher's overall defensive value. It's clearly not the only thing a catcher does that adds or subtracts from his defensive value.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  9. #259
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    It's also interesting to me to disentangle pitch framing from a catcher's overall defensive value. It's clearly not the only thing a catcher does that adds or subtracts from his defensive value.
    But since it is something a catcher may do from 50 to 150 times in a game (every balls that he catches that are not foul or put in play), it is clearly one of the most important.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  10. #260
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Trading Hughes plus others for Garza and Geovany Soto would be noice
    help feed the hungry:

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  11. #261
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    Trading Hughes plus others for Garza and Geovany Soto would be noice
    I wasn't aware that you were a Cubs fan.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  12. #262

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    The problem is there are many indicators above and beyond the pitch framing study that show Martin has pretty much been garbage this year and not just offensively.

    He already has 4 PBs, 2 short of his career high set in 2008 when he caught 149 games.
    His 27 WPs in 66 games (.41/g) are 15% above his career aveage rate (.35/g).
    His 23% CS is worst of his career and only the 2nd time he's been below league average.

    And others have already questioned this stat but I'll throw it out there anyway cERA stweart - 2.96, Martin 4.03.

    He may still be framing the ball well but that seems to be the only thing he's doing right this year.
    I bet he'd look a hell of a lot worse if he didn't frame the way he does.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

  13. #263
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    Trading Hughes plus others for Garza and Geovany Soto would be noice
    It wouldn't be noice or nice....it would be very silly.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  14. #264
    NYYF Triple Crown


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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    I find it hard to believe that this is the best we can do at C.....

  15. #265
    Happy Summer!! b-ball-lunachick's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Nice game for Martin so far...threw out a couple baserunners (really three because Trout was out at third) and a big base hit with the go ahead run.

  16. #266

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Time off, lower body strength back = CSs and hitting the ball hard... with a big hit.

    I hope we get an upgrade from Stewart so Martin could get a little more time off and stay sharp.

  17. #267
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Yeahhhhhhhhhh thats one of the better catcher plays ive ever seen

  18. #268
    Happy Summer!! b-ball-lunachick's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    And one more CS to end the game...maybe the break did him good and he'll have a great second half. He must have said "eff yeah" 5 times.

  19. #269
    Legend DJ27's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by b-ball-lunachick View Post
    And one more CS to end the game...maybe the break did him good and he'll have a great second half. He must have said "eff yeah" 5 times.
    Great start to the second half!
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  20. #270
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    It's just one game, but he had a great one! I'm very happy for him.
    We toast to the old days and DiMaggio too,
    Billy Martin and Mantle, Whitey Ford and to you

  21. #271
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote of the Day (right after the final out):

    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF yeah, man !!!

    -- Russell Martin

  22. #272
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    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Maybe I should bad mouth him some more. It seems to help.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  23. #273

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Imagine that.

    Here's too good health in the second half. His numbers sucked first half...given.

    Health = elite.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  24. #274

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Maybe I should bad mouth him some more. It seems to help.
    Yes, ignorance is always helpful somehow.
    You know they are not real pies, right?

    "I heard Jackie Bradley junior was already voted to the ASG....for the next three years." - NerfBall55 4/4/2013

  25. #275

    Re: 2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Maybe I should bad mouth him some more. It seems to help.
    I'd petition the mods to remove the censor if the badmouthing works.
    EvilEmpireDC: Fans bitch about anything lol

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