2012 Russell Martin Performance Thread

[Yankee Tripper]

Uh, yes. As you warned, SSS and there were other things, as I am sure you're totally aware of, going on that led to those results.

Ah so when reality doesn't mesh with theory, ignore reality?

[grizy]

Ah so when reality doesn't mesh with theory, ignore reality?

Huh, you don't really understand the numbers in play if you think that's proof Martin's pitch framing isn't that valuable.

They are well within what could be expected of the small margins at play here.

You'd be better off arguing Martins' game calling is probably horrible for him (this year) to produce such horrible results relative to Stewart.

[snapple]

This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.

[Yankee Tripper]

Huh, you don't really understand the numbers in play if you think that's proof Martin's pitch framing isn't that valuable.

They are well within what could be expected of the small margins at play here.

You'd be better off arguing Martins' game calling is probably horrible for him (this year) to produce such horrible results relative to Stewart.

I do think pitch framing is a skill and a valuable one at that. I just dispute that it is worth 70 runs over a 3 year period.

[Yankee Tripper]

This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.

The problem is there are many indicators above and beyond the pitch framing study that show Martin has pretty much been garbage this year and not just offensively.

He already has 4 PBs, 2 short of his career high set in 2008 when he caught 149 games.
His 27 WPs in 66 games (.41/g) are 15% above his career aveage rate (.35/g).
His 23% CS is worst of his career and only the 2nd time he's been below league average.

And others have already questioned this stat but I'll throw it out there anyway cERA stweart - 2.96, Martin 4.03.

He may still be framing the ball well but that seems to be the only thing he's doing right this year.

[JL25and3]

This thread is chock full of proof that Yankees fans don't really want to embrace metrics. The Yankees FO made (my opinion, a smart move) a smart decision to make the catcher a defensive position again. And they did some research and are benefitting from it. However, because the guy is batting .197, Yankees fans see him as absolute garbage.

It's perfectly possible to embrace "metrics" (just a fancy words for stats) without embracing them uncritically. Just because there's a metric doesn't make it important or even valuable, even if you embrace the concept.

[False1]

I do think pitch framing is a skill and a valuable one at that. I just dispute that it is worth 70 runs over a 3 year period.

I can't prove or discredit it, but I also can't count how many times I watched Posada not even try to frame a pitch, or drop what should have been a called strike, and that led to bad news on the scoreboard. 70 runs over a 3 year period actually doesn't sound all that shocking to me.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

It's perfectly possible to embrace "metrics" (just a fancy words for stats) without embracing them uncritically. Just because there's a metric doesn't make it important or even valuable, even if you embrace the concept.

It's also interesting to me to disentangle pitch framing from a catcher's overall defensive value. It's clearly not the only thing a catcher does that adds or subtracts from his defensive value.

[Yankee Tripper]

It's also interesting to me to disentangle pitch framing from a catcher's overall defensive value. It's clearly not the only thing a catcher does that adds or subtracts from his defensive value.

But since it is something a catcher may do from 50 to 150 times in a game (every balls that he catches that are not foul or put in play), it is clearly one of the most important.

[flymick24]

Trading Hughes plus others for Garza and Geovany Soto would be noice

[Yankee Tripper]

Trading Hughes plus others for Garza and Geovany Soto would be noice

I wasn't aware that you were a Cubs fan.

[snapple]

The problem is there are many indicators above and beyond the pitch framing study that show Martin has pretty much been garbage this year and not just offensively.

He already has 4 PBs, 2 short of his career high set in 2008 when he caught 149 games.
His 27 WPs in 66 games (.41/g) are 15% above his career aveage rate (.35/g).
His 23% CS is worst of his career and only the 2nd time he's been below league average.

And others have already questioned this stat but I'll throw it out there anyway cERA stweart - 2.96, Martin 4.03.

He may still be framing the ball well but that seems to be the only thing he's doing right this year.

I bet he'd look a hell of a lot worse if he didn't frame the way he does.

[hardrain]

Trading Hughes plus others for Garza and Geovany Soto would be noice

It wouldn't be noice or nice....it would be very silly.

[LIYanks]

I find it hard to believe that this is the best we can do at C.....

[b-ball-lunachick]

Nice game for Martin so far...threw out a couple baserunners (really three because Trout was out at third) and a big base hit with the go ahead run.

[grizy]

Time off, lower body strength back = CSs and hitting the ball hard... with a big hit.

I hope we get an upgrade from Stewart so Martin could get a little more time off and stay sharp.

[Jace]

Yeahhhhhhhhhh thats one of the better catcher plays ive ever seen

[b-ball-lunachick]

And one more CS to end the game...maybe the break did him good and he'll have a great second half. He must have said "eff yeah" 5 times.

[DJ27]

And one more CS to end the game...maybe the break did him good and he'll have a great second half. He must have said "eff yeah" 5 times.

Great start to the second half!

[hardrain]

It's just one game, but he had a great one! I'm very happy for him.

[JSG]

Quote of the Day (right after the final out):

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF yeah, man !!!

-- Russell Martin

[Yankee Tripper]

Maybe I should bad mouth him some more. It seems to help.

[Shadoux101]

Imagine that.

Here's too good health in the second half. His numbers sucked first half...given.

Health = elite.

[Shadoux101]

Maybe I should bad mouth him some more. It seems to help.

Yes, ignorance is always helpful somehow.

[snapple]

Maybe I should bad mouth him some more. It seems to help.

I'd petition the mods to remove the censor if the badmouthing works.