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  1. #151

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Go Jesus.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'." - Yogi Berra

  2. #152
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    4-4 tonight.
    So glad we traded him away to get Michael Pineda.

  3. #153

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Joe Girrardi was a very good defensive catcher that couldn't really hit. Athletes are ego driven, its what makes them successful. Girardi more than likely believes that superior defensive catchers that can't hit are more valuable than superior offensive catchers with below average to poor ball handling skills. Being replaced by Posada for offensive purposes is probably somthing that bothers him to this day.

    Is it not then possible, or even probable, that the reasn the Yankees were so eager to trade montero, was because a player like him simply doesn't fit into Girardi's coaching philosophy. I personally think this had a lot to do with why the trade was made. Similar to the Angels trading Mike Napoli, which was also a mistake.

  4. #154

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    Joe Girrardi was a very good defensive catcher that couldn't really hit. Athletes are ego driven, its what makes them successful. Girardi more than likely believes that superior defensive catchers that can't hit are more valuable than superior offensive catchers with below average to poor ball handling skills. Being replaced by Posada for offensive purposes is probably somthing that bothers him to this day.

    Is it not then possible, or even probable, that the reasn the Yankees were so eager to trade montero, was because a player like him simply doesn't fit into Girardi's coaching philosophy. I personally think this had a lot to do with why the trade was made. Similar to the Angels trading Mike Napoli, which was also a mistake.
    Possible, but not probable to me. The trade can stand on its own merits given what we knew at the time. If they didn't think Montero could catch (or stay healthy catching with that frame), fine. But if they based his value on some misguided notion like you mention, well, that'd be dumb.


  5. #155
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    Possible, but not probable to me. The trade can stand on its own merits given what we knew at the time. If they didn't think Montero could catch (or stay healthy catching with that frame), fine. But if they based his value on some misguided notion like you mention, well, that'd be dumb.
    Yeah, I'd have to agree. I believe Girardi might have a voice on some things, but I don't believe he drives decisions like this one.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  6. #156

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    No, no, I don't think that Girardi's preference against (or bitterness towards) catchers that hit well, but don't field well was THE reason the trade was made. I just think it was a factor.

  7. #157
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez View Post
    No, no, I don't think that Girardi's preference against (or bitterness towards) catchers that hit well, but don't field well was THE reason the trade was made. I just think it was a factor.
    Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I just don't agree. I think the Yankees perceptions of Montero's catching, and his valuation, were determined by the guys who were watching him, not Girardi
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  8. #158

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    if joe was not going to play montero at catcher, then that's a huge factor in the trade scenario.
    always reasonable

  9. #159
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    if joe was not going to play montero at catcher, then that's a huge factor in the trade scenario.
    Joe's playing Nunez in the OF b/c the team wanted to turn him into a full utility player. I think they'd have given Montero more of a shot if they really wanted him to catch.

    The reality is, they were willing to deal Montero well before Girardi would have weighed in
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  10. #160

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    i'm not saying they wouldn't have traded montero without girardi's input. just sayin, if he really did not like montero catching, it would have been a factor because he would not be played at C for this team.

    if they have say earl weaver, montero would probably have more of a role on the team.
    always reasonable

  11. #161
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    i'm not saying they wouldn't have traded montero without girardi's input. just sayin, if he really did not like montero catching, it would have been a factor because he would not be played at C for this team.

    if they have say earl weaver, montero would probably have more of a role on the team.
    It's just a hugely theoretical argument, and it might be more believable if Montero had caught more at the end of last year. Girardi once did break in a defensively-challenged, young Yankee C.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  12. #162

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    well i don't really care now. i just want montero on the team to have someone to root for.
    always reasonable

  13. #163

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    It's just a hugely theoretical argument, and it might be more believable if Montero had caught more at the end of last year. Girardi once did break in a defensively-challenged, young Yankee C.
    Who? Posada? He had absolutely no input on that. The manager on that team was a catcher Known for his hitting.

    Obviously I can't prove anything. It makes sense though

  14. #164
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    well i don't really care now. i just want montero on the team to have someone to root for.
    You don't root for anyone else on the team?

  15. #165

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    well i don't really care now. i just want montero on the team to have someone to root for.
    Early August, when the M's come into town, I wonder what kind of reception Montero will get. Im thinking it will be some overly sarcastic ovation where Cashmans entire family can hear
    Phil Hughes is a starter!

  16. #166

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Olivo hurt, will be catching more:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/ey...-olivos-injury
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'." - Yogi Berra

  17. #167
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    I wonder when this thread can be renamed the "Eat Your Heart Out Yankees" thread.
    [FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.

    It is never too late to be what you might have been.
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  18. #168
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JfromJersey View Post
    I wonder when this thread can be renamed the "Eat Your Heart Out Yankees" thread.
    Probably never.

    As was stated in the Darvish thread, I'm going to wait until this guy has at least a full season under his belt before making a determination about him.
    Let him get into territory that his body hasn't seen yet. Let's see him catch regularly and perform.

    Until then, it's nice to see the youngster have some success at the Major League level.
    “Begin each day as if it were on purpose........”—Alex Hitchens

  19. #169

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoVaughnEatsAlot View Post
    You don't root for anyone else on the team?
    i hold these two distinct and parallel rooting interests:

    i want the yankees to do well. from a 'management that should service the fans' perspective. i.e. i want them to play the dominant strat and try to win. realistic management wants to make bank.

    i root for talented players. of course i am more familiar with the yankees guys so i tend to root for them, but i tend towards blurring the team distinction here.

    there is really not a lot of interaction between these two. i want to see montero do well but i don't think that way to spite management or something.
    always reasonable

  20. #170

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    i hold these two distinct and parallel rooting interests:

    i want the yankees to do well. from a 'management that should service the fans' perspective. i.e. i want them to play the dominant strat and try to win. realistic management wants to make bank.

    i root for talented players. of course i am more familiar with the yankees guys so i tend to root for them, but i tend towards blurring the team distinction here.

    there is really not a lot of interaction between these two. i want to see montero do well but i don't think that way to spite management or something.
    I don't think you're alone here, at least with respect to being drawn toward really talented players. I love watching guys like Strasburg dominate. Of course, I never want to see him dominate a Yankees lineup. Ever.

    Edit: I also appreciate isolated plays that are truly spectacular, even if made against the Yankees.


  21. #171
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by a-RobinsonCano-Fan View Post
    Early August, when the M's come into town, I wonder what kind of reception Montero will get. Im thinking it will be some overly sarcastic ovation where Cashmans entire family can hear
    M's also are in town next weekend (May 11-13).
    "The saddest thing in life is wasted talent"

  22. #172
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    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    I echo the statements made by some posters in this thread.

    Basically I'm as big a baseball fan as I am a Yankee fan.

    So with out a doubt I can enjoy watching other talented players around baseabll while wanting the Yankees collectively win and for players on the Yankee roster to preform in that winning effort.

  23. #173

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Heating up? OPSing 1.095 over the past week (21 ABs).


  24. #174

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    In 64 innings as catcher, Monty allowed 3 PBs and 3 WPs.

    If he plays 678.1IPs at C, like Jorge did in 2010, Monty is on pace for about 32PBs and 32WPs. Jorge clocked 8PBs and 32WPs in 2010. The most PBs allowed since 1972 is 28 by Ted Simmons in 1975 in 1292 innings. Even if you give Montero credit for the 22IPs with no PBs, 3PBs in 86IPs still puts him on pace for ~23PBs in a half season (650 innings, 80 games, give or take). This is not an MLB phenomenon either. He was atrocious at PBs in MiLB too.

    Mariners have no illusions about his defensive ability right now. They are treating it as and calling it the developmental project that it is. Even the pitchers, in an article cited earlier, said "he's close" not "he's good enough."

  25. #175

    Re: 2012 Jesus Montero Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by grizy View Post
    In 64 innings as catcher, Monty allowed 3 PBs and 3 WPs.

    If he plays 678.1IPs at C, like Jorge did in 2010, Monty is on pace for about 32PBs and 32WPs. Jorge clocked 8PBs and 32WPs in 2010. The most PBs allowed since 1972 is 28 by Ted Simmons in 1975 in 1292 innings. Even if you give Montero credit for the 22IPs with no PBs, 3PBs in 86IPs still puts him on pace for ~23PBs in a half season (650 innings, 80 games, give or take). This is not an MLB phenomenon either. He was atrocious at PBs in MiLB too.

    Mariners have no illusions about his defensive ability right now. They are treating it as and calling it the developmental project that it is. Even the pitchers, in an article cited earlier, said "he's close" not "he's good enough."
    To be fair, he probably wouldn't be so bad defensively if he were catching every day like Jorge was. I really don't think he can be any worse than Posada defensively.

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