2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

[MoVaughnEatsAlot]

Driving under the influence is pretty stupid, and I'd never downplay the potential consequences it can have. That said, I've known plenty of 23 year olds who have done some remarkably self-destructive things and managed to become pretty respectable human beings.

This pretty much sums it up.

[False1]

when you handwave it away it is not a serious recognition of the problem.

I don't think anyone is doing that though. It's disappointing on many levels. I just think that without any additional evidence just prior to or after that incident, jumping to the conclusion that he's not rehabbing sufficiently is a stretch. Unless his labrum got tired out from all those 12 ounce curls.

[awy]

i may be a bit biased here in that i think alcohol is a pretty bad drug.

[False1]

i may be a bit biased here in that i think alcohol is a pretty bad drug.

Interesting, given your stance on steroids. Do you think alcohol is bad, or people that abuse it (particularly in the form of DUIs) are bad?

[awy]

steroids is a bad drug if abused. alcohol is clearly abused in this case. by bad i mean having severe adverse effects on the body

[False1]

steroids is a bad drug if abused. alcohol is clearly abused in this case. by bad i mean having severe adverse effects on the body

LOL. Unless you have other information that you're keeping in your back pocket, I would love to know how one known incident where he had a BAC of .125 has "sever adverse effects on the body." Unless you are stretching that to say the adverse effect was that he was stupid enough to drive.

[awy]

yes, part of it is due to lack of inhibitory control and judgement. that's why it's an intoxication.

[BennyTheJetRodriguez]

LOL. Unless you have other information that you're keeping in your back pocket, I would love to know how one known incident where he had a BAC of .125 has "sever adverse effects on the body." Unless you are stretching that to say the adverse effect was that he was stupid enough to drive.

Actually being intoxicated with alcohol puts your body in a catabolic state, which is the opposite of what (anabolic) steroids do. Further alcohol prevents us from reaching rem sleep, which is when the body synthesizes protein and produces (natural) growth hormone. Recovery (in this case proper rehabilitation) and supercompensation (improvement) from a workout program is not really possible for at the absolute minimum 48 hours surrounding this particular "binge". The work he did 24-48 hours prior, 24-48 hours after, and the day of the incident, was wasted (pun not intended).

I'm not saying Pineda knew this, or that his coaches made it clear to him, but phisiologically it's fact.

[False1]

Actually being intoxicated with alcohol puts your body in a catabolic state, which is the opposite of what (anabolic) steroids do. Further alcohol prevents us from reaching rem sleep, which is when the body synthesizes protein and produces (natural) growth hormone. Recovery (in this case proper rehabilitation) and supercompensation (improvement) from a workout program is not really possible for at the absolute minimum 48 hours surrounding this particular "binge". The work he did 24-48 hours prior, 24-48 hours after, and the day of the incident, was wasted (pun not intended).

I'm not saying Pineda knew this, or that his coaches made it clear to him, but phisiologically it's fact.

You're obviously more informed than me on the matter, and I don't pretend be studied here (other than in the occasional art of drinking). But I'm skeptical. So you're saying that because he had a BAC of .12, his shoulder received no benefit of any physical therapy for 5 days?

[snapple]

As someone who takes his workouts and his drinking very seriously, I don't think he's really right or wrong. Sure, getting piss drunk makes working out that much harder, but as long as you hydrate yourself you're going to be alright.

[flymick24]

while the DUI certainly hints at a lack of maturity and character development, i think more than anything else, the fact that he came to his first yankee camp doughy and out of shape (regardless of the number of innings he threw in 2011, a little cardio during the winter wouldn't have hurt) speaks more to his work ethic than anything else

[MoVaughnEatsAlot]

1) Drinking alcohol in excess is not healthy and can lead to destructive behavior
2) Drinking in moderation from time to time actually has health benefits
3) DUI is highly dangerous and irresponsible
4) Isolated events related to poor drinking decisions, including DUI, is not indicative of a persons outlook on life/career.
5) Repeated events related to poor drinking decisions may be of concern.
6) This thread has become ridiculous.

[Mr Coffee]

while the DUI certainly hints at a lack of maturity and character development, i think more than anything else, the fact that he came to his first yankee camp doughy and out of shape (regardless of the number of innings he threw in 2011, a little cardio during the winter wouldn't have hurt) speaks more to his work ethic than anything else

If only there was some type of place he could go to before the season began to get himself in shape. Maybe a camp of sorts, where one could train. I'm not sure what it should be called.

[ArodEra]

If only there was some type of place he could go to before the season began to get himself in shape. Maybe a camp of sorts, where one could train. I'm not sure what it should be called.

"The Biggest Loser?"

[Kingofkings19]

Nardi Contreras is not gone! He's been reassigned and might even have Billy Connor's old job. The Yankees are apparently adding more resources to their scouting and development staffs.

What took them so long?

[SatchelPaigeYankee]

Actually being intoxicated with alcohol puts your body in a catabolic state, which is the opposite of what (anabolic) steroids do. Further alcohol prevents us from reaching rem sleep, which is when the body synthesizes protein and produces (natural) growth hormone. Recovery (in this case proper rehabilitation) and supercompensation (improvement) from a workout program is not really possible for at the absolute minimum 48 hours surrounding this particular "binge". The work he did 24-48 hours prior, 24-48 hours after, and the day of the incident, was wasted (pun not intended).

I'm not saying Pineda knew this, or that his coaches made it clear to him, but phisiologically it's fact.

You're obviously more informed than me on the matter, and I don't pretend be studied here (other than in the occasional art of drinking). But I'm skeptical. So you're saying that because he had a BAC of .12, his shoulder received no benefit of any physical therapy for 5 days?

yeah, please expand

[BennyTheJetRodriguez]

yeah, please expand

I'll try. The concept is called supercompensation.

Imagine your body as balloon. The air in the balloon represents your body's baseline fitness level (strength, power, endurance ect)

Basically exercise is bad for you... You tear muscle tissue, deplete your glycogen, tax your nervous system, and tax your muscular system... This is a catabolic reaction... it removes air from your "balloon"

When your body realizes what you've done to it, it takes protective measures to return itself to homeostasis (normal). This is an anabolic reaction, and it replaces all the air lost in your "balloon"

If the anabolic process is aided by proper nutrition, diet, recovery stimulus, and sleep, there will be a rebound past the original baseline. This is called super compensation... it makes your "balloon" larger than its original size.

This process, without the aid of steroids, is believed to take roughly 48 hours to complete. Drinking enough alcohol will keep your body in a catabolic state (air leaving "balloon") and prevent the anabolic reaction (blowing "balloon" back up) and super compensation ("balloon" getting bigger). This will also prevent your body reaching the rem stage of sleep (protein synthesis and HGH production take place during the rem cycle)

Once you have reached supercompensation, you need to workout again to continue the process. If you don't, your body will return to the original baseline...air will seep out of your "balloon" until its back to its original size.

SO... Every workout completed is either draining your balloon, re-filling your balloon, or helping make your balloon larger. All together its a 48 hour(catabolic and anabolic reactions) to 72hour (supercompensation AND additional catabolic reaction) process. Because each cycle leads into another, a night of drinking disturbs this process twice.

I know this was a long winded explination, and I'm sorry. I hope I explained it well.

[sweet_lou_14]

while the DUI certainly hints at a lack of maturity and character development, i think more than anything else, the fact that he came to his first yankee camp doughy and out of shape (regardless of the number of innings he threw in 2011, a little cardio during the winter wouldn't have hurt) speaks more to his work ethic than anything else

Agreed. We as fans have had precious few data points about Pineda, and chances to observe him. Within that small sample there are several bad signs. The best you can say is let's be patient and see what kind of young man and player resurfaces when the time comes. But there is nothing in the glimpses we've received that would support the assertion that he's focused on coming back and being a big contributor to this team.

[Kingofkings19]

Michael Pineda’s rehab is on track, but he’s still not in the immediate picture
“I think we’re going to put him off to the side,” Cashman said. “His rehab will take him into — which is going fine, but he’s just flat-ground throwing – but it will take him into late May (or) June. I think it’s best for us to pretend he’s not even there and then have him sneak up on us. And I hope he does, but I’m not going to count on him. I don’t think that’s going to be fair. Our fans need us to obviously put something there that you feel good about, and I don’t want to put something there that will take care of it in April and May and it’s kind of locked in, from June on we’re going to have this guy. That would be a mistake. He’ll be ready when he’s ready, and we’ll be happy to take him. But to count on him would be wrong.”

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2012/11/0...s-day-1-notes/

[just-blaze]

I'll try. The concept is called supercompensation.

Imagine your body as balloon. The air in the balloon represents your body's baseline fitness level (strength, power, endurance ect)

Basically exercise is bad for you... You tear muscle tissue, deplete your glycogen, tax your nervous system, and tax your muscular system... This is a catabolic reaction... it removes air from your "balloon"

When your body realizes what you've done to it, it takes protective measures to return itself to homeostasis (normal). This is an anabolic reaction, and it replaces all the air lost in your "balloon"

If the anabolic process is aided by proper nutrition, diet, recovery stimulus, and sleep, there will be a rebound past the original baseline. This is called super compensation... it makes your "balloon" larger than its original size.

This process, without the aid of steroids, is believed to take roughly 48 hours to complete. Drinking enough alcohol will keep your body in a catabolic state (air leaving "balloon") and prevent the anabolic reaction (blowing "balloon" back up) and super compensation ("balloon" getting bigger). This will also prevent your body reaching the rem stage of sleep (protein synthesis and HGH production take place during the rem cycle)

Once you have reached supercompensation, you need to workout again to continue the process. If you don't, your body will return to the original baseline...air will seep out of your "balloon" until its back to its original size.

SO... Every workout completed is either draining your balloon, re-filling your balloon, or helping make your balloon larger. All together its a 48 hour(catabolic and anabolic reactions) to 72hour (supercompensation AND additional catabolic reaction) process. Because each cycle leads into another, a night of drinking disturbs this process twice.


I know this was a long winded explination, and I'm sorry. I hope I explained it well.

A. How is workout being defined?
B. How much is "enough alcohol"?
C. Cartilage and muscles don't repair in the same manner, do they?

[snapple]

If you are properly hydrated, it's not as bad.

[awy]

the rehab is not to repair the cartilage, but to build up the muscles around the immobile area again.

btw you guys mean to tell me if he was irresponsible enough to be doing that look ma no lights trick at 2 am, he was responsible enough to take all measures to minimize the effect of binge drinking on his rehab?

[Mr Coffee]

the rehab is not to repair the cartilage, but to build up the muscles around the immobile area again.

btw you guys mean to tell me if he was irresponsible enough to be doing that look ma no lights trick at 2 am, he was responsible enough to take all measures to minimize the effect of binge drinking on his rehab?

You mean like drink water?

Listen, they're human beings. You can't lock them in hyperbaric chambers and train them like Ivan Drago 24/7. I don't care what your job is, every once in a while you're going to go do something to blow off steam. And baseball is their job. Having a few drinks is not that unusual. If he didn't get behind the wheel nobody would have known or cared. You think he's the only ballplayer who has a few drinks on his day off?

[nnysiny]

WARNING: this thread will make you lose brain cells

[awy]

about as much brain cell as required to claim that drinking water will counteract ...

whatever i don't even care.