2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

[Mr Coffee]

Montero with a nice 2 for 5 tonight with a home run.

Wrong thread.

[Eldee5]

Wrong thread.

Not lately.

[jcarey]

Montero with a nice 2 for 5 tonight with a home run.

Yeah well, Pineda has yet to give up an earned run all season.

[Jax Teller]

Yeah well, Pineda has yet to give up an earned run all season.

Shouldn't have made me laugh but it did.

[madjack]

Yeah well, Pineda has yet to give up an earned run all season.

He hasn't gotten an out either.

[jcarey]

He hasn't gotten an out either.

He's also not worth -.1 WAR.

[spikeowenfan]

Other articles suggest odds as low as 3% and still others 33-66%. The list of guys who have had labrum surgery is much longer than the list of guys who have recovered from it.

I don't expect to ever see him again, and if he makes it back, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I think this shows the huge variation in "labral tears" more than anything. That's the only explanation, unless medical procedures in this area have advanced faster than in others, for informed opinions to vary that widely. Everyone talking specifically about Pineda has been very optimistic, though. Now, granted, these are only the Yankees and his doctors, but I don't really see the upside in them lying. The doctors especially have motivation to not downplay the seriousness of the injury. After the surgery there should be more information available. Until then, I think there is good reason for optimism.

[sweet_lou_14]

He's also not worth -.1 WAR.

I must be missing something ... is Montero at negative WAR right now?

[jcarey]

I must be missing something ... is Montero at negative WAR right now?

Yes, -.2 now.

[SatchelPaigeYankee]

I must be missing something ... is Montero at negative WAR right now?

the positional adjustment for DHs is really harsh. actually, i happen to think it makes no sense, but hey.

[jcarey]

the positional adjustment for DHs is really harsh. actually, i happen to think it makes no sense, but hey.

Taking a break from my non-serious comments, when/how will the adjustment be made to consider him a catcher?

[spikeowenfan]

Positional adjustments are on a per game basis. For the season he's been deducted 1.2 runs or 0.12 WAR. The adjustment for DH might be too harsh, but it seems like it's line with all of the other adjustments: C- +12.5 runs, 1b - -12.5 runs, 2b/3b - +2.5 runs, SS - +7.5 runs, LF/RF - -7.5 runs, DH - -17.5 runs.

[35Knucklecurve]

There seems to be a consensus in one area - rehab. If he works his butt off and sticks to the program, his chances for a full recovery are good. If the Yankees are aware of any problems he's had in the past with keeping in shape, they need to get on it now, before he's able to pick up a baseball. Reporting to ST with 20 extra pounds gives me cause for some concern in that area.

[Yankees1962]

There seems to be a consensus in one area - rehab. If he works his butt off and sticks to the program, his chances for a full recovery are good. If the Yankees are aware of any problems he's had in the past with keeping in shape, they need to get on it now, before he's able to pick up a baseball. Reporting to ST with 20 extra pounds gives me cause for some concern in that area.

I don't think that will ever happen again with him and the Yankees.

[jcarey]

Positional adjustments are on a per game basis. For the season he's been deducted 1.2 runs or 0.12 WAR. The adjustment for DH might be too harsh, but it seems like it's line with all of the other adjustments: C- +12.5 runs, 1b - -12.5 runs, 2b/3b - +2.5 runs, SS - +7.5 runs, LF/RF - -7.5 runs, DH - -17.5 runs.

Why are 2B and 3B the same? That seems odd.

[grizy]

Why are 2B and 3B the same? That seems odd.

Those numbers are derived from how players perform in different positions.

Like ARod Zobrist playing SS, 2B and RF. Tango did work to regress all the guys that move back and forth and determined the relative difficulties of playing certain positions. Turns out, 2b, 3b and SS are about equally valuable defensively and even the replacement level DH/1B hits pretty damn well.

Work was also done from the other direction by comparing relative offensive production. Interestingly, the differences in offensive production mirrored the expected differences in defense very closely, indicating managers have pretty good intuitive understanding of where things stand.

[spikeowenfan]

The surgery was today, right?

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

The surgery was today, right?

I thought it was tomorrow, but I could be wrong

[Yankees1962]

I thought it was tomorrow, but I could be wrong

It's tomorrow, May 1st.

[StaleMilk]

Pineda was 9-10 with a 3.74 ERA for the weak-hitting Mariners in his rookie season, but his effectiveness fell off markedly in the second half of the season, when his ERA rose and his velocity declined after the All-Star break.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...ond-opinion-on

Let me see if I understand this all. His velocity was down in the 2nd half of last year. You just gave up your largest trading chip and acquiring a young pitcher with little to no ML track record and who was shut down from arm injuries in the minors. Wouldn't now be time to do an extensive shoulder and elbow tests including a dye-contrast MRI?

THEN Pineda doesn't display the velocity all Spring Training. At any point here does the bell ring, maybe we need to do some more extensive tests such as a dye-contrast MRI? Just to make sure he doesn't injure himself any worse seems like a good idea.

THEN Pineda complains about the back of his shoulder after suffering velocity loss all ST. Wouldn't this be the time for a dye-contrast MRI? Nope. Regular MRI. They don't find any major structural damage.

THEN the Yankees shut him down and let him rest for 15 days. In his first game back, he needs to get shut down, finally the Yankees give him a dye-contrast MRI and it reveals the structural damage.

This whole ordeal seemed to be handled very poorly.

In addition to all of that, I'm extremely concerned with Yankees ability to rehab Pineda properly (after the failures with Hughes, Joba, and Wang). If I'm him, I'd feel lucky if I returned with an arm at all.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...ond-opinion-on

Let me see if I understand this all. His velocity was down in the 2nd half of last year. You just gave up your largest trading chip and acquiring a young pitcher with little to no ML track record and who was shut down from arm injuries in the minors. Wouldn't now be time to do an extensive shoulder and elbow tests including a dye-contrast MRI?

THEN Pineda doesn't display the velocity all Spring Training. At any point here does the bell ring, maybe we need to do some more extensive tests such as a dye-contrast MRI? Just to make sure he doesn't injure himself any worse seems like a good idea.

THEN Pineda complains about the back of his shoulder after suffering velocity loss all ST. Wouldn't this be the time for a dye-contrast MRI? Nope. Regular MRI. They don't find any major structural damage.

THEN the Yankees shut him down and let him rest for 15 days. In his first game back, he needs to get shut down, finally the Yankees give him a dye-contrast MRI and it reveals the structural damage.

This whole ordeal seemed to be handled very poorly.

In addition to all of that, I'm extremely concerned with Yankees ability to rehab Pineda properly (after the failures with Hughes, Joba, and Wang). If I'm him, I'd feel lucky if I returned with an arm at all.

I was going to post his velocity chart, but since it gets posted on every page of this thread, I didn't think it was worth it. His fastball average 94 in his next to last start of the year - -it was only in his last start, after 11 days off, that he showed a real decline in velocity....

[spikeowenfan]

if the yankees team doctor didn't see a reason to do a dye MRI test, I can't criticize him or the team for that. Maybe they are due criticism, but before last week I didn't know what a dye MRI test was.

[Mr Coffee]

if the yankees team doctor didn't see a reason to do a dye MRI test, I can't criticize him or the team for that. Maybe they are due criticism, but before last week I didn't know what a dye MRI test was.

Yeah, but how long have you been practicing medicine?

[spikeowenfan]

Well I have seen more than 2 episodes of House which on the internet is the equivalent of a medical professional with years of experience in many different disciplines.

Girardi said the surgery "went well" today. Not exactly the flood of information I was hoping for.

[Torre Must Go]

Mazel Tov to Jesus Montero on a 4 for 4 evening at the plate and Noesi pitched pretty well in a losing effort against the Rays.

Pineda's performance thread won't be very long for this season. Mr. Cashman also wishes he didn't bring back Garcia.