2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

[Mr Coffee]

Ok, I didn't see it but I'll take your word for it this time Mr.

Here you go: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=1#post7490461

And just for the record, his argument was better.

[NYIndian2005]

Long term prognosis aside, this has certainly put a damper on this season. One can only hope that Pettitte has an outstanding come back season or there is little chance of us making it to the WS.

[snapple]

Here you go: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=1#post7490461

And just for the record, his argument was better.

I think that comes down to opinion. I wasn't around for a lot of the Montero hype, so I can't exactly say I'm coming from the same place as you guys. I liked Montero, but I much prefer the platoon method.

[THEBOSS84]

Here you go: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=1#post7490461

And just for the record, his argument was better.

Thanks. We had the same argument, except he used player names (instead of me using the term DH) to get your approval.

[THEBOSS84]

I think that comes down to opinion. I wasn't around for a lot of the Montero hype, so I can't exactly say I'm coming from the same place as you guys. I liked Montero, but I much prefer the platoon method.

There you have it. Many of us have been following him since he signed as a 16 year old out of Venezuela.

[Eldee5]

I found an interesting article from 2007 about the guy he went to see. I think I would have wanted his opinion as well: http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...ORTS/708070328

I doubt it-- he's the Mets team surgeon now. He's just the one Pineda's agent wanted for a second opinion. I wonder which one of his past clients had work done by him. Pedro maybe?

I mentioned this way upthread yesterday when it was announced that Pineda and his agent wanted the second opinion, and I know that it's certainly not apples to apples as pitchers are completely different, but Dr. Altchek did Jorge Posada's shoulder surgery back in '08. He was the Mets' doctor at that point too.

[Mr Coffee]

Thanks. We had the same argument, except he used player names (instead of me using the term DH) to get your approval.

Actually he just posted first.

Your argument was just as good as his.

[Jax Teller]

I think that comes down to opinion. I wasn't around for a lot of the Montero hype, so I can't exactly say I'm coming from the same place as you guys. I liked Montero, but I much prefer the platoon method.

Aging veteran re-treads over an elite, young bat just because the Vets hit from different sides of the plate?

[Mr Coffee]

I mentioned this way upthread yesterday when it was announced that Pineda and his agent wanted the second opinion, and I know that it's certainly not apples to apples as pitchers are completely different, but Dr. Altchek did Jorge Posada's shoulder surgery back in '08. He was the Mets' doctor at that point too.

Yeah he's the one doing the surgery.

[grizy]

But DL time counts as service time.

Well then, life sucks doesn't it?

[snapple]

There you have it. Many of us have been following him since he signed as a 16 year old out of Venezuela.

And I understand that. I totally do. Hopefully I can give some insight to someone who is a tad more "on the outside". I don't have the emotional(?) attachment.

Aging veteran re-treads over an elite, young bat just because the Vets hit from different sides of the plate?

No, I prefer the platoon method, not necessarily how we have it set up. Though, I do like the set up.

[Eldee5]

Yeah he's the one doing the surgery.

Altchek also did the minor shoulder surgery that Mariano had done back in '08. I believe that Pineda's agent and Mo's are one and the same.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Aging veteran re-treads over an elite, young bat just because the Vets hit from different sides of the plate?

I'd much rather have Montero for the long term, but I do think there's a chance that there won't be that much difference in their performnace (Yankee DH vs. Montero) this year.

[ArodEra]

I'm going to the exact same extremes as other posters. And of course I am exaggerating by crap loads over how I actually feel. There are subsets of fans that can NEVER be pleased, and I'm not going to waste my time trying to do so. So, I'll just continue the debate with something they'll understand.

I'm a bit bothered, because this is exactly why people tend to HATE Yankee fans. I live in Michigan, my dad, brothers and wife-in-a-month are the only Yankee fans I know. People loathe Yankee fans because of the attitudes that are displayed in this thread. Most of the people sticking around to continue posting and discussing are fine. It's the drop by "Cashman made a bad trade. We lose. Fire cashman" posts that I am addressing. People expecting the GM of ANY team to win all of their trades is just asinine (Hank Hill asinine).

Coffee had a great point that he traded someone who didn't really have a place on the team (I get that it's up for debate). I think that the FO was probably thinking "hey, we might not be able to sell any higher than right now" and got what they could. That's absolutely their call.

You cannot call this trade as a win or loss yet. I'll step away from this thread to cool down, but I thought I'd say what is bothering me so much. It's only fair to you guys, and to myself, for perspective's sake.

Dude, this thread (and every other thread) isn't about you and your feelings and impressions of other posters, or how and why your way of thinking is the right way. Nobody really gives a flying fawk.

It's really starting to get annoying, especially at a trying time like this when every Yankee fan is feeling bummed. Enough already.

[Black Sabbathia]

Very unfortunate news and this trade looks like an absolute disaster at this point. I'm not buying that he was completely sound physically and this just happened in extended ST, sorry.

It could be worse, in the sense that the rotator cuff is ok and the tear is apparently small and there is a good % chance tied to his full recovery, but it's not really any solace when the guy we finally traded Montero for probably won't be pitching for us til after next year's all-star break. A huge, huge potentially career-altering setback for a young and still developing pitcher. That can't be understated.

Our pitching staff is starting to feel like it deserves a "historic depth" comment

[Black Sabbathia]

Dude, this thread isn't about you and your feelings and impressions of other posters, or how and why your way of thinking is the right way. Nobody really gives a flying fawk.

It's really starting to get annoying, especially at a trying time like this where every Yankee fan is feeling somewhat down.

Agreed. I wish the editorializing on other posters could be taken to it's own thread, very annoying to read through.

[Jax Teller]

Dude, this thread isn't about you and your feelings and impressions of other posters, or how your way of thinking is the right way. Nobody really gives a flying fawk.
and why
It's really starting to get annoying, especially at a trying time like this where every Yankee fan is feeling somewhat down.

Plus, him saying that everyone here would blame Cashman if Pineda died in a car crash is probably the most absurd out of all the absurd things that's been said here. There is no way possible to rationalize that no matter what comments to base that assumption on.

I'd say a majority of the posters on this topic have been level-headed with a few people exaggerating being sprinkled in. The ones who are exaggerating are being lumped in with everyone else because the ridiculous comments are going to stand out to your average joe as opposed to a well thought out response.

[Torre Must Go]

I wonder if Pineda was afraid to say anything about an injury at any point during camp and all the talk about his alarmingly low velocity caused him to do more than he physically couldn't. I do blame him for showing up to camp out of shape. For a guy to do that as he comes to a new team with high expectations, traded for our top position player propsect, inexcusable.

I think the Yankees have to prepare for next season's rotation as if they get Pineda back before the All Star break, it's a bonus. Cashman is also extremely lukcy Petttitte had the itch to come back. This GM should not touch pitchers from other teams or try to develop our own. Even he has to admit that he's been bad and unlucky.

[ArodEra]

Plus, him saying that everyone here would blame Cashman if Pineda died in a car crash is probably the most absurd out of all the absurd things that's been said here. There is no way possible to rationalize that no matter what comments to base that assumption on.

I'd say a majority of the posters on this topic have been level-headed with a few people exaggerating being sprinkled in. The ones who are exaggerating are being lumped in with everyone else & that's a problem.

I agree. I don't see anyone going overboard other than he and a couple of other posters claiming that people are going overboard. And that car crash example gave me douche chills. This is happening in almost every thread and especially now isn't the right time to do it in this one. It's just not the right time to be a hyperbolic drama queen when all we want to read reasonable discourse regarding his injury and his prognosis.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I wonder if Pineda was afraid to say anything about an injury at any point during camp and all the talk about his alarmingly low velocity caused him to do more than he physically couldn't. I do blame him for showing up to camp out of shape. For a guy to do that as he comes to a new team with high expectations, traded for our top position player propsect, inexcusable.

I think the Yankees have to prepare for next season's rotation as if they get Pineda back before the All Star break, it's a bonus. Cashman is also extremely lukcy Petttitte had the itch to come back. This GM should not touch pitchers from other teams or try to develop our own. Even he has to admit that he's been bad and unlucky.

So our strategy is.....

[Torre Must Go]

Our strategy is to find a GM who is better at that part of the job because Brian isn't.

[snapple]

I agree. I don't see anyone going overboard other than he and a couple of other posters claiming people are going overboard. It's happening in every thread and especially now isn't the right time to do it in this one. Now's not the time to be a drama queen,

I hardly appreciate that. I am trying to offer a different perspective.

[Jax Teller]

I hardly appreciate that. I am trying to offer a different perspective.

You're not doing that though. You've admitted to baiting & by using extreme hyperbole, you're basically doing exactly what you're criticizing others of doing.

[Black Sabbathia]

So our strategy is.....

2 GMs

[sweet_lou_14]

Can someone provide a definitive answer on how the arbitration clock works here? Assuming Pineda misses 2012 and pitches in 2013, how long is he under team control?