2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

[snapple]

All fanbases have fans that say dumb things.

Let's move on.

Homerific fans are just as bad as pessimistic fans you're all the same to me.

I'd agree, but today it's been dominated by the latter.

/okayimreallyleavingnow

[NYCrusader]

I'd agree, but today it's been dominated by the latter.

/okayimreallyleavingnow

Nope both are doing a fine job in this thread.

Except I would say there are a lot of posters being rational and the homers are jumping on them with hyperbole.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

All fanbases have fans that say dumb things.

Let's move on.

Homerific fans are just as bad as pessimistic fans you're all the same to me.

Nah, we've got to get this thread to 100 pages... that will be really impressive for a guy who won't throw a pitch this year

[dave8274]

The other big problem this creates for the Yankees is that now they need to go out and get another top of the rotation guy this offseason because they can't count on Pineda for next year. So this will cost us further prospects or a big long term contract. Nothing we can do about it, but I'm not afraid to call the trade a loss, even this early.

[THEBOSS84]

I'm going to the exact same extremes as other posters. And of course I am exaggerating by crap loads over how I actually feel. There are subsets of fans that can NEVER be pleased, and I'm not going to waste my time trying to do so. So, I'll just continue the debate with something they'll understand.

I'm a bit bothered, because this is exactly why people tend to HATE Yankee fans. I live in Michigan, my dad, brothers and wife-in-a-month are the only Yankee fans I know. People loathe Yankee fans because of the attitudes that are displayed in this thread. Most of the people sticking around to continue posting and discussing are fine. It's the drop by "Cashman made a bad trade. We lose. Fire cashman" posts that I am addressing. People expecting the GM of ANY team to win all of their trades is just asinine (Hank Hill asinine).

Coffee had a great point that he traded someone who didn't really have a place on the team (I get that it's up for debate). I think that the FO was probably thinking "hey, we might not be able to sell any higher than right now" and got what they could. That's absolutely their call.

You cannot call this trade as a win or loss yet. I'll step away from this thread to cool down, but I thought I'd say what is bothering me so much. It's only fair to you guys, and to myself, for perspective's sake.

I thought that point was bad and didn't get a response from him when I challenged it. (still waiting coffee)

[bmxstreetrider86]

Ugh.....

[snapple]

What was your response? (I apologize, I know I read it, just can't remember)

[THEBOSS84]

Ugh.....

Wow! Haven't seen you since you were posting about there being no chance he would start the year in the minors! Turns out you were right.

[NYCrusader]

The "he had no place on the team" argument is post trade rationalization I only saw on NYY fans.

Not even Cashman said it because the trade was a simple talent for talent trade that both teams felt made their team better.

[THEBOSS84]

What was your response? (I apologize, I know I read it, just can't remember)

I said that Montero "having no place on the team" was an idea that posters made up after the trade to help them rationalize the trade. He was considered by most to be a "generational bat", yet I'm supposed to believe the Yanks wouldn't have found him 500 ABs between C/DH this year.

[bmxstreetrider86]

Wow! Haven't seen you since you were posting about there being no chance he would start the year in the minors! Turns out you were right.

Unfortunately I was right about everything involving the trade, though that's little comfort now.

[THEBOSS84]

Unfortunately I was right about everything involving the trade, though that's little comfort now.

This is true. I remember you hated it.

[indianyanksfan]

Nothing can be done-- lets hope the rest of the rotation holds up. Hope he recovers well.

[snapple]

@THEBOSS

This line of thinking was created after the trade. I never thought he'd be a catcher, but to say he had no place on the team is a huge stretch.

Is this the unanswered challenge? If so, we knew the DH would be clogged between A-Rod and Jeter. And actually, I much prefer the DH as we have it now. Raul/Jones/Nunez and then resting is really nice. I think it's much better than having ONE guy DH. But, I suppose it is nice when you are actually carrying 3 catchers (regardless of skill of catching). But, this is where it runs into the realm of opinion, and I did say that Coffee's post was subject to debate.

[Mr Coffee]

I thought that point was bad and didn't get a response from him when I challenged it. (still waiting coffee)

I thought I did respond to you. I guess I responded to someone else saying what you said.

Anyway, I conceded the point-- it's in there somewhere, I promise.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

The other big problem this creates for the Yankees is that now they need to go out and get another top of the rotation guy this offseason because they can't count on Pineda for next year. So this will cost us further prospects or a big long term contract. Nothing we can do about it, but I'm not afraid to call the trade a loss, even this early.

I'm not sure I agree with the first part of that -- I think it's too early to tell what we'll think of Nova by years end, and where Kuroda settles in and whether he comes back. That said, I've always been convinced that if Hamels is available, there's a good chance they'll pursue him, Pineda or not.

I can't call the trade a loss at this point. Obviously for this season, but there's still a long way left.

[JohnnyEllis]

My mistake. I lumped your post into the others that were criticizing the trade. I'm not putting too much faith in it, but the team does, publicly at least, seem optimistic about a full recovery. If not, like you said, he showed an aptitude for pitching with how quickly he developed that change. He's always had good control too so I think he can succeed in the low 90s.

No worries. He's a good kid; easy to root for. He's going to have to walk through fire to be successful, but it's doable. A lot riding on it for him and his family.

[CalYankeeFan]

I'm assuming most people got the Pineda questions wrong in the Prediction Contest.

[Yankee Tripper]

He's still on arb clock. We can still get four productive years out of him, for even cheaper to boot.

With how packed our rotation is this year, this may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

But DL time counts as service time.

[THEBOSS84]

I thought I did respond to you. I guess I responded to someone else saying what you said.

Anyway, I conceded the point-- it's in there somewhere, I promise.

Ok, I didn't see it but I'll take your word for it this time Mr.

[bmxstreetrider86]

This is true. I remember you hated it.

I didn't hate it. I thought the mariners wonnth trade almost exclusively because of what we are seeing now. I had wished if they moved him it would be for someone a bit further through the injury nexus.

I always understood the logic of the trade, I simply didn't agree with the trade. Nothing to do now but wish Pineda a speedy recovery

[BeantownYankee]

Also per Feinsand:
https://twitter.com/#!/BloggingBombe...60622160674817

Monty Python: It's only a flesh wound...

[Mr Coffee]

Unfortunately I was right about everything involving the trade, though that's little comfort now.

[BennyTheJetRodriguez]

There will soon be a "Pineda rule" to go with the verducci rule. Something tells me very few GMs will repeat this mistake from now on.

[BobLoblaw]

I said that Montero "having no place on the team" was an idea that posters made up after the trade to help them rationalize the trade. He was considered by most to be a "generational bat", yet I'm supposed to believe the Yanks wouldn't have found him 500 ABs between C/DH this year.

I agree with this so hard