+ Reply to Thread
Page 77 of 111 FirstFirst ... 27 67 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 87 ... LastLast
Results 1,901 to 1,925 of 2768
  1. #1901

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kongull View Post
    The bolded is one man's opinion. One easily debunked by none other than the Yankees for the past 20 years.
    that opinion is pretty universal. your notion that high end pitching can be acquired or developed without great luck or great investment of resources is not so commonly shared.

    Quote Originally Posted by YESSIR! View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing that outright. It's more a matter of acquiring a pitcher under the right circumstances. The Yankees traded from a position of scarcity for a position of relative abundance while at the same time eschewing their greatest advantage, i.e. financial might.
    ^see above quote. I agree that it isn't always the right call to go after a young pitcher, though. I think you are putting a little too much faith in the free agent market. The Yankees might have the opportunity to give $140 million to a 30 year old Cole Hamels next year. I will probably be hoping they do that, but it's not a great victory for the team or a reliable way to build a staff.
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyEllis View Post
    Point completely missed by you.

    His success, whenever he had it, was tied to his velocity, which in all likelihood he won't be able to sustain as a SP.

    That's not bashing Pineda either. He'll have to be a different pitcher than the one we traded for if he is to succeed. Pointing that out isn't bashing.
    My mistake. I lumped your post into the others that were criticizing the trade. I'm not putting too much faith in it, but the team does, publicly at least, seem optimistic about a full recovery. If not, like you said, he showed an aptitude for pitching with how quickly he developed that change. He's always had good control too so I think he can succeed in the low 90s.

  2. #1902

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YESSIR! View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing that outright. It's more a matter of acquiring a pitcher under the right circumstances. The Yankees traded from a position of scarcity for a position of relative abundance while at the same time eschewing their greatest advantage, i.e. financial might.
    I disagree that the Yankees have a "relative abundance" of the kind of pitching that wins championships.

    I also disagree that the Yankee management is "eschewing" their financial advantage, to the extent that still exists over the many other franchises, not just Boston, but also Philly and Texas and the LA teams etc, that are also getting the lucrative cable deals. The Yankees still have some advantage, but it is not what it was in the early days of YES.

    And, by the way, DHs are never "scarce." If Montero is not a catcher, he is not really a "scarce" commodity, at least not unless he reaches a very high peak as a hitter.

  3. #1903

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    From Cashman, "We're cautiously optimistic. We are not going to downplay the significance of this injury but there is a high success rate coming back from this particular surgery. It certain could be better, I guess. If we weren't dealing with this it would certainly be a better situation. It could be worse if it involved the rotator cuff. But it's not a good situation, clearly, regardless."

    via marc carig

  4. #1904

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    I knew yesterday, when Pineda's agent went seeking a second opinion, that we were shtupped
    I found an interesting article from 2007 about the guy he went to see. I think I would have wanted his opinion as well: http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...ORTS/708070328
    27 World Championships
    40 AL Pennants
    Liberated France Twice

  5. #1905

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    According to this article, he's most likely done.

    http://http://www.slate.com/articles...illed_him.html

  6. #1906

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    The way I see it, for whatever its worth ...

    If the Yankees were getting the young flame-thrower from Seattle I watched last year, and when you make the trade you have to assume thats what you're getting, it was a good deal for the Yankees because THAT GUY, the one I saw last year, had legit dominant ace potential.

    This is just bad luck

  7. #1907

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dave8274 View Post
    According to this article, he's most likely done.

    http://http://www.slate.com/articles...illed_him.html
    That article is from 2004. I'd like to think there's been some advance in shoulder surgery since then. For example, I'm pretty sure they were doing them arthroscopically in most of those past cases they referred to.
    27 World Championships
    40 AL Pennants
    Liberated France Twice

  8. #1908

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spikeowenfan View Post
    With all the "damaged goods" posts, I still haven't seen any plausible explanation of how the Mariners would know that Pineda was injured, but the Yankees would not. Even if we give the Mariners this special power, I don't think Jack Z would trade Pineda knowing he was hurt. He would have to be extremely confident that his prior knowledge of the injury would never be found out because I believe the repercussions, aside from any potential official MLB sanctions, would be severe. Based on baseball hiring patterns, Jack Z should feel relatively confident that he can work in a front office somewhere as long as he wants. I don't see him jeopardizing that for one trade and I think there is reason to believe that being underhanded with other teams would jeopardize his future career.
    He was damaged goods but that doesn't mean the Mariners were of aware of it and knowingly went out to foist him on some unsuspecting sucker.

    My only argument is that it's crazy to think that the Yankees somehow contributed to the injury by mismanaging him this spring. It's not like they had him throwing 200 pitches a day at full speed from day 1. They didn't have him long enough to mismanage him. People want to use this as an out to defend the trade as in "it was a great trade but they screwed him up in the three weeks they had him."

    If Pineda had shown up in Mariners camp this spring the same thing would have happened. Dude had a shoulder problem that was waiting to blow up.
    Plays the game the wrong way.

  9. #1909

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Wasn't there a time where we could've gotten Cliff Lee for Montero and NunEz? I wonder if Cashman privately would've done that now with a chance to repeat in 2010.

    Looks like Pineda will also start next season on the DL, with the hope that he's ready by next May. Let's hope he doesn't use a trampoline during his rehab.

    Cashman, stay away from pitchers. Bad luck and bad results.

  10. #1910

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    That article is from 2004. I'd like to think there's been some advance in shoulder surgery since then. For example, I'm pretty sure they were doing them arthroscopically in most of those past cases they referred to.
    Isn't that also how they are doing Pinedas?

  11. #1911
    Member

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    SF, CA

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    That article is from 2004. I'd like to think there's been some advance in shoulder surgery since then. For example, I'm pretty sure they were doing them arthroscopically in most of those past cases they referred to.
    http://emedicine.medscape.com/articl...-treatment#a25

    This is a more recent review of labral tears.

  12. #1912

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dave8274 View Post
    Isn't that also how they are doing Pinedas?
    Yeah-- I mean 'weren't doing them arthroscopically'.

    My bad.
    27 World Championships
    40 AL Pennants
    Liberated France Twice

  13. #1913

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    I found an interesting article from 2007 about the guy he went to see. I think I would have wanted his opinion as well: http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...ORTS/708070328
    Wow, that guy is good. I hope he's doing Pineda's surgery.

  14. #1914

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spin View Post
    http://emedicine.medscape.com/articl...-treatment#a25

    This is a more recent review of labral tears.
    That's certainly more optimistic.

    Question-- does he have a full SLAP tear or is it just the anterior?

    I don't pretend to have a GED in sports medicine or anything, but it seems to me the less that is involved the better.
    27 World Championships
    40 AL Pennants
    Liberated France Twice

  15. #1915

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    Wow, that guy is good. I hope he's doing Pineda's surgery.
    I doubt it-- he's the Mets team surgeon now. He's just the one Pineda's agent wanted for a second opinion. I wonder which one of his past clients had work done by him. Pedro maybe?
    27 World Championships
    40 AL Pennants
    Liberated France Twice

  16. #1916

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post

    I don't pretend to have a GED in sports medicine ...
    lol

  17. #1917
    NYYF Legend


    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by snapple View Post
    I didn't like Montero's attitude. He was whiny.

    Pineda had the mindset of a pitcher to me. Not a thrower. He came and took a below average change up and make it look good. He seemed more about doing his job than about Michael Pineda. Montero seemed to be all about Montero.
    Classic.

  18. #1918
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NJ

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...michael-pineda
    "Absolutely not," Zduriencik told ESPNNewYork.com shortly after the Yankees announced Pineda would miss a full year because of shoulder surgery. "None, whatsoever. Before the trade, he was going to be our No. 2 starter."
    Liar liar pants on fire.

  19. #1919

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post

    I doubt it-- he's the Mets team surgeon now.
    Yeah but I'm sure he's not bound to working with the Mets only.

    He's one of the top op-surgeons in the country and I'm sure he has a private practice as well?

  20. #1920

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    Yeah but I'm sure he's not bound to working with the Mets only.

    He's one of the top op-surgeons in the country and I'm sure he has a private practice as well?
    Yeah maybe. I think they already announced who was doing the surgery. Isn't it the Yankees guy Ahmed?

    EDIT: Nope-- you're right.. Altchek is doing it : http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...houlder-injury
    27 World Championships
    40 AL Pennants
    Liberated France Twice

  21. #1921

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Classic.
    Hey, it's not as absurd sounding as the other stuff in this thread. I'll admit it was baiting. The thing is, no one notices any of the positive things said unless someone is a smartass or makes outlandish comments. People see and hear exactly what they want to see and hear.

  22. #1922

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    If Pineda had shown up in Mariners camp this spring the same thing would have happened. Dude had a shoulder problem that was waiting to blow up.
    no way of knowing, but this seems most likely true. If there was no way to know that he was hurt, though, I don't see how it can be used as a criticism of the trade. Unless it's just a general "never trade hitting for young pitching" type argument.

    edit: about the only thing I've learned from all the reading on shoulder surgery I've done this past hour is that I would have done very poorly in med school

  23. #1923
    NYYF Cy Young


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philly Burbs

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    I see many of our resident psychologists have switched professions to orthopedic surgeons.

  24. #1924

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post

    EDIT: Nope-- you're right.. Altchek is doing it : http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...houlder-injury
    Awesome, hopefully this guy can work his magic.

  25. #1925

    Re: 2012 Michael Pineda Performance Thread

    So, I guess the money that we should have spent on Yu will be thrown Cole Hamels' way this offseason? Well, at least we still have Montero if we need to make a trade. Oh wait

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts