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  1. #51

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyDamonfan View Post
    This is tricky ! No one mentioned this Cesar Cabral kid as the fifth guy. Can someone tell me about him? I think he might be ready too. I think I read somewhere that he may be competing for the fifth spot too.
    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2011/12/1...n-winter-ball/

    Looks like he is pitching as a reliever in Winter Ball. He is holding lefties to a low average so he may be able to stick with the team as a LOOGY.

  2. #52
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    I'd try to trade him to the mets for Jason Bay. He's been just as bad.

    AJ has 2 years $33 mil

    Bay has 2 yrs $32 mil plus 3 mil to buy out a $17 mil option.

    You convince the Mets to pay $2mil plus the public pressure cost of not allowing Bay to reach the option (a couple of mil) or let them throw in a prospect worth about $4 mil)

    Preferably an outfielder that can replace Bay.

    Bay could be a 4th outfielder/dh. He's actually not bad in the field.

    His numbers should definitely improve in YS vs citi.

    Aj has to go back to the NL.
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  3. #53

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    I'd try to trade him to the mets for Jason Bay. He's been just as bad.

    AJ has 2 years $33 mil

    Bay has 2 yrs $32 mil plus 3 mil to buy out a $17 mil option.

    You convince the Mets to pay $2mil plus the public pressure cost of not allowing Bay to reach the option (a couple of mil) or let them throw in a prospect worth about $4 mil)

    Preferably an outfielder that can replace Bay.

    Bay could be a 4th outfielder/dh. He's actually not bad in the field.

    His numbers should definitely improve in YS vs citi.

    Aj has to go back to the NL.
    Why would the Mets prefer AJ to Bay?

  4. #54

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
    Why would the Mets prefer AJ to Bay?
    Cause Bay sucks.... At least AJ in Citi field in the NL would be respectable and not a waste of money. Where as Bay with the Yankees would be an even bigger waste of money. I don't see why the Yankees would even think about doing that. At least you could put AJ in the bullpen, Bay riding the bench taking up a spot that could go to Maxwell or even Pena would hurt the Yankees even worse.

  5. #55

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellonewman View Post
    No reason it shouldn't though. One fluke season near the tail end of a career, 146 innings, 4.75 ERA against the top 4 non-Yankee offenses - why is his rotation spot sacred?
    And what were Hughes and AJ's #'s last year?

    I'm sorry, but I have no faith in Hughes ever becoming the starter we hoped we would be. If he proves me wrong, great, because it means our rotation is in even better shape than it appears to be on this day....but I'm not putting any faith in him.

    AJ? I've seen enough of AJ Burnett to last me a lifetime. We know what he brings to the table, and that isn't going to change.

    Freddy Garcia may not be sexy, and he may not produce another season like he did last year, but health permitting you know what you're getting with him, and that is a veteran pitcher who knows his ass from his elbow and doesn't have to rely on the ever elusive "stuff" like the other two.

    And, we didn't give Garcia $5m to be a longman. He has the track record as a starter, Hughes doesn't and from everything we've seen looks a lot better out of the pen. If we're debating roller coaster starter/above average out of the pen Hughes v. steady but unspectacular Garcia it really shouldn't be a question.

  6. #56
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Sabbathia View Post
    And what were Hughes and AJ's #'s last year?

    I'm sorry, but I have no faith in Hughes ever becoming the starter we hoped we would be. If he proves me wrong, great, because it means our rotation is in even better shape than it appears to be on this day....but I'm not putting any faith in him.

    AJ? I've seen enough of AJ Burnett to last me a lifetime. We know what he brings to the table, and that isn't going to change.

    Freddy Garcia may not be sexy, and he may not produce another season like he did last year, but health permitting you know what you're getting with him, and that is a veteran pitcher who knows his ass from his elbow and doesn't have to rely on the ever elusive "stuff" like the other two.

    And, we didn't give Garcia $5m to be a longman. He has the track record as a starter, Hughes doesn't and from everything we've seen looks a lot better out of the pen. If we're debating roller coaster starter/above average out of the pen Hughes v. steady but unspectacular Garcia it really shouldn't be a question.
    I don't get all the hate for Hughes. He's had two very good seasons.

    He had a great year as a reliever, than made the all-star team and won 18 games the following year as a starter.

    He obviously wasn't healthy last year. His stuff just wasn't there. He had REALLY good stuff in the last couple of outings once he looked healthy.

    I think all these "Yankee" fans hating on Phil Hughes are going to look silly once this season is over and he wins 15-18 games.
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  7. #57
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
    Why would the Mets prefer AJ to Bay?
    Because AJ may not be THAT bad away from the DH and the smaller ball parks of the AL.

    Bay's had two seasons of sucky ball.

    Change of scenery may help both players. AJ from the pressure of playing in the limelight of the Yankees and Bay from the big contract and needing to be "the man" with the Mets. He'd be a 4th outfielder/DH batting 7th for the yanks. Much less pressure.
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  8. #58

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    I don't get all the hate for Hughes. He's had two very good seasons.

    He had a great year as a reliever, than made the all-star team and won 18 games the following year as a starter.

    He obviously wasn't healthy last year. His stuff just wasn't there. He had REALLY good stuff in the last couple of outings once he looked healthy.

    I think all these "Yankee" fans hating on Phil Hughes are going to look silly once this season is over and he wins 15-18 games.
    Hughes had 2 good months as a starter in 2010. All-star berths are meaningless. His best season he pitched almost exclusively out of the pen.

    Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but to this point he's given us no reason to believe in him as a starter

  9. #59
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Sabbathia View Post
    Hughes had 2 good months as a starter in 2010. All-star berths are meaningless. His best season he pitched almost exclusively out of the pen.

    Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but to this point he's given us no reason to believe in him as a starter
    One of the biggest problem Yankee fans have is that they are results oriented/demanding.

    They don' understand the maturation of a player, because they aren't patient enough to wait it out. It's why Kennedy is a cy young candidate elsewhere.

    They don't understand that pitchers under 25 are the most injury prone players in baseball, that once a pitcher gets through those ages, the injury rate tends to go down.

    Hughes is still 25 years old. He won't be 26 until almost halfway through the season, late June. He's only 1 1/2-2 years older than Dellin Betances, whom the Yankees havn't rushed.

    Hughes was brought up at age 20, not because he was ready, but because they had NO OTHER choices and did remarkable well, after they bounced him back and forth a bit, he was able to keep his spot down the stretch.

    They don't understand that falling off after an awesome start in 2010 was fairly predictable, since he would be prone to have dead arm after spending all of 2009 in the pen. That pitchers go through hot and cold times in a season as the arm feels strong or dead.

    That 2011's start was probable a lingering after affect of trying to pitch through it in 2010.

    Yankee fans are ignorant, not you sir, per se, because they don't understand the eb and flow.

    They don't understand that in reality, a pitcher is as good as his best start, because all he has to be able to his stay healthy to repeat that. He looked healthy in his last few appearances, lacked command, which was to be expected.

    Phil Hughes' closest comparison is John Lackey through age 25. I think we'd all be happy if Phil Hughes was John Lackey in his prime.
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  10. #60
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
    Why would the Mets prefer AJ to Bay?
    I'm not sure that 18 hr's and 104 rbi over 2 seasons is preferable to what AJ's done?
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  11. #61
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    One of the biggest problem Yankee fans have is that they are results oriented/demanding.

    They don' understand the maturation of a player, because they aren't patient enough to wait it out. It's why Kennedy is a cy young candidate elsewhere.

    They don't understand that pitchers under 25 are the most injury prone players in baseball, that once a pitcher gets through those ages, the injury rate tends to go down.

    Hughes is still 25 years old. He won't be 26 until almost halfway through the season, late June. He's only 1 1/2-2 years older than Dellin Betances, whom the Yankees havn't rushed.

    Hughes was brought up at age 20, not because he was ready, but because they had NO OTHER choices and did remarkable well, after they bounced him back and forth a bit, he was able to keep his spot down the stretch.

    They don't understand that falling off after an awesome start in 2010 was fairly predictable, since he would be prone to have dead arm after spending all of 2009 in the pen. That pitchers go through hot and cold times in a season as the arm feels strong or dead.

    That 2011's start was probable a lingering after affect of trying to pitch through it in 2010.

    Yankee fans are ignorant, not you sir, per se, because they don't understand the eb and flow.

    They don't understand that in reality, a pitcher is as good as his best start, because all he has to be able to his stay healthy to repeat that. He looked healthy in his last few appearances, lacked command, which was to be expected.

    Phil Hughes' closest comparison is John Lackey through age 25. I think we'd all be happy if Phil Hughes was John Lackey in his prime.
    While I get your point, Curtis Granderson being an MVP candidate here is the reason IPK is a Cy Young candidate elsewhere.

  12. #62
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    I'm not sure that 18 hr's and 104 rbi over 2 seasons is preferable to what AJ's done?
    Bay has been about league average offensively, while Burnett has been one of the worst starters in baseball for two years running. Also, we need a DH and we have too many starters.

  13. #63
    1931-2011 hellonewman's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Sabbathia View Post
    And what were Hughes and AJ's #'s last year?
    Recency bias. Hughes was better than Fred in 2010 and still has perceived upside, Garcia doesn't. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying hand the job to Hughes. I'm saying let them fight for it; I'm disagreeing with your inclination to hand Garcia the job in January. 146 innings fattening up on weak sisters after years of mediocrity and/or injury earns him no guarantees, in my book.

    As for A.J. I'm with you, I'd love to see him off the team if it's possible, though I'm not sure it's possible.

  14. #64
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    One of the biggest problem Yankee fans have is that they are results oriented/demanding.

    They don' understand the maturation of a player, because they aren't patient enough to wait it out. It's why Kennedy is a cy young candidate elsewhere.

    They don't understand that pitchers under 25 are the most injury prone players in baseball, that once a pitcher gets through those ages, the injury rate tends to go down.

    Hughes is still 25 years old. He won't be 26 until almost halfway through the season, late June. He's only 1 1/2-2 years older than Dellin Betances, whom the Yankees havn't rushed.

    Hughes was brought up at age 20, not because he was ready, but because they had NO OTHER choices and did remarkable well, after they bounced him back and forth a bit, he was able to keep his spot down the stretch.

    They don't understand that falling off after an awesome start in 2010 was fairly predictable, since he would be prone to have dead arm after spending all of 2009 in the pen. That pitchers go through hot and cold times in a season as the arm feels strong or dead.

    That 2011's start was probable a lingering after affect of trying to pitch through it in 2010.

    Yankee fans are ignorant, not you sir, per se, because they don't understand the eb and flow.

    They don't understand that in reality, a pitcher is as good as his best start, because all he has to be able to his stay healthy to repeat that. He looked healthy in his last few appearances, lacked command, which was to be expected.

    Phil Hughes' closest comparison is John Lackey through age 25. I think we'd all be happy if Phil Hughes was John Lackey in his prime.
    The problem with Hughes is that even if the fastball comes back to that mid 90s level...he still lacks secondary pitches. Thats really his biggest problem. In 2010, teams started to adjust and were able to foul off alot of his fastballs, and wait on the mediocre secondary stuff to pounce on.

    Unless he suddenly develops good secondary stuff, IMO he is either best suited for the pen or a #5 type starter.

  15. #65
    1931-2011 hellonewman's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Am I remembering things or did Hughes have a pretty darned good curveball when he first came up?

  16. #66
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellonewman View Post
    Am I remembering things or did Hughes have a pretty darned good curveball when he first came up?
    He did...the near no-hitter in Texas he had a great curve. I dont know what happened to it.

  17. #67
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellonewman View Post
    Am I remembering things or did Hughes have a pretty darned good curveball when he first came up?
    It was decent, but I think overrated. But it's even loopier now and it seemed like he lost the ability to get it over for strikes, or hung it.

  18. #68
    Movin' on Bub's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by justinvarnes View Post
    Spring Training is gonna be interesting. All of a sudden the Yanks have more pitchers than they know what to do with. Which is a good thing.
    Seems any year this happens they wind up having to give mid-year starts to guys we never heard of anyway.
    Let the kids play.

  19. #69
    NYYF Cy Young


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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    If they can't trade him, just make him an announcer on YES... they've proven they are willing to take anyone, he's gotta be better than Flaherty and if the Yankees walk off, he can still run downstairs and throw a pie. He's pretty good at that.

    no? </s>

  20. #70
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Give AJ the same treatment that was given to Igawa.
    Other than a long relief role (or short considering we're talking about AJ) I don't see him starting any longer.

    CC
    Kuroda
    Nova
    Pineda
    Garcia / Hughes
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  21. #71
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeesrule View Post
    If they can't trade him, just make him an announcer on YES... they've proven they are willing to take anyone, he's gotta be better than Flaherty and if the Yankees walk off, he can still run downstairs and throw a pie. He's pretty good at that.

    no? </s>
    I like this idea.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  22. #72

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    He gets the Billy Martin Ken Holtzman treatment?
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  23. #73

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    I think you have to wait till spring training at the earliest to see what everyone brings. I would like to think CC, Kuroda, Pineda, Nova will all be solid and healthy. Then have Garcia and Hughes battle for the #5. Then you have a back up for whomever goes down first.

    I don't know if I feel that confident to get rid of Burnett too early. Although there have been times I would trade him for a box of baseballs and old baseball mit.

  24. #74
    The gerbil lives Zimmers' Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    One of the biggest problem Yankee fans have is that they are results oriented/demanding.

    They don' understand the maturation of a player, because they aren't patient enough to wait it out. It's why Kennedy is a cy young candidate elsewhere.

    They don't understand that pitchers under 25 are the most injury prone players in baseball, that once a pitcher gets through those ages, the injury rate tends to go down.

    Hughes is still 25 years old. He won't be 26 until almost halfway through the season, late June. He's only 1 1/2-2 years older than Dellin Betances, whom the Yankees havn't rushed.

    Hughes was brought up at age 20, not because he was ready, but because they had NO OTHER choices and did remarkable well, after they bounced him back and forth a bit, he was able to keep his spot down the stretch.

    They don't understand that falling off after an awesome start in 2010 was fairly predictable, since he would be prone to have dead arm after spending all of 2009 in the pen. That pitchers go through hot and cold times in a season as the arm feels strong or dead.

    That 2011's start was probable a lingering after affect of trying to pitch through it in 2010.

    Yankee fans are ignorant, not you sir, per se, because they don't understand the eb and flow.

    They don't understand that in reality, a pitcher is as good as his best start, because all he has to be able to his stay healthy to repeat that. He looked healthy in his last few appearances, lacked command, which was to be expected.

    Phil Hughes' closest comparison is John Lackey through age 25. I think we'd all be happy if Phil Hughes was John Lackey in his prime.
    Great post! Stop making sense, already.

    Truth is, Hughes actually pitched well as a starter once he regained his velocity.

    6 of his 8 final starts were quality starts - I'll take that from a #5 starter anytime.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelo...38/phil-hughes
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  25. #75

    Re: What happens with Burnett?

    AJ isnt THAT bad of a 5th starter

    Garcia is injury insurance

    Hughes to the pen
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