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  1. #101
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    See my edit.
    So you're saying the bill went up and my insurance was rejected?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  2. #102
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon Fiber View Post
    This has been an interesting back and forth -- thanks to everyone for throwing in their 2c.

    Like most folks, I have mentally ill folks in my extended family. And like the majority in this thread, when faced with folks battling mental illness, many preconceived notions go away --- so I also side with the majority here...

    But as a data nerd, JL - I was wondering if you could clarify something. You said earlier that "When appropriately treated, though, that psychotic poses no more threat than anyone else." ... is that anecdotal or are there actually studies supporting that? I don't mean this to be an internet weasel - I get what you mean by it -- that if folks are treated for their illness that they can be safe for society at large --- but my bias is to find it hard to believe that they pose no more threat than anyone else... I'd think they'd still pose a statistically significant bump over the general population --- but that as a society we'd still want to mainstream them if the actual risk (as opposed to relative risk) is low. So if my bias is incorrect, I'd like to be corrected!
    We're talking about people who commit acts of violence as a direct result of their psychosis, not people who happen to be both psychotic and violent. When appropriately treated, they're not psychotic anymore.

    They still need enough structure, support and monitoring to make sure treatment continues (and continues to work - the meds that are effective now might not work as well a year from now). And the combination of illness and meds (with side effects) may well limit their functioning, but there's no reason they should be dangerous.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  3. #103
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    So you're saying the bill went up and my insurance was rejected?
    No reason to pay for that diagnosis. Even a layman can see it in your eyes.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  4. #104
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Meds suck. They're extremely strong and have miserable side effects - lethargy, weight gain, cloudiness, tics and other involuntary movements, drooling, and others. People also complain "I just don't feel right, don't feel like myself" - which is partly the point, but which you can also probably understand if you've taken strong meds before.

    As I said, you need outpatient treatment and a strong support system. Depending on the setting, family or staff can watch actually watch a person take meds every day (and know how to watch out for "cheeking"). For some meds, you can do blood tests. And if you have regular contact with a mentally person, you can monitor the symptoms - just as Halman's family knew he needed help.
    See this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. People who have been diagnosed and know they are messed up but don't like taking the meds because meds suck. I feel sorry for them but not so sorry I want them walking around w/o meds if they are a danger to others without the meds. And this is the type of person who I think should be held responsible for choosing to put others at risk by not taking their meds. I have more sympathy for someone who can't get treatment and/or meds than someone who chooses not to accept the treatment.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  5. #105
    Sunny days ahead YankeePride1967's Avatar
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Not exactly. They may well know they have a mental illness, especially after they've been in treatment. If they don't know that, they shouldn't be discharged. Medicated, they can tell the difference.

    And as I've said, they should be discharged where their meds and symptoms can be monitored. People do stop taking their medication, often for very understandable reasons.

    Should have looked at myself before posting my idiotic post. I was treated for depression and I knew I had a problem which prompted me to go.
    Life is good!

  6. #106

    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    We're talking about people who commit acts of violence as a direct result of their psychosis, not people who happen to be both psychotic and violent. When appropriately treated, they're not psychotic anymore.

    They still need enough structure, support and monitoring to make sure treatment continues (and continues to work - the meds that are effective now might not work as well a year from now). And the combination of illness and meds (with side effects) may well limit their functioning, but there's no reason they should be dangerous.
    How often is a lack of structure and support a contributor to the mental defect?


  7. #107

    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I dunno. If you get chicks like this, Barbarian doesn't seem so bad...
    Yeah, but I'm gay, so that doesn't help.

  8. #108

    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    How often is a lack of structure and support a contributor to the mental defect?
    Incredibly often.

  9. #109

    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Deleted my post as I would rather post nothing than wrong statements.
    On the Internet? What are you, new?

  10. #110

    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    Yeah, but I'm gay, so that doesn't help.
    Just focus your attention on a different part of the picture.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  11. #111

    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Just focus your attention on a different part of the picture.
    He's not really my type.

  12. #112
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    On the Internet? What are you, new?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  13. #113
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    How often is a lack of structure and support a contributor to the mental defect?
    Quote Originally Posted by RenoHightower View Post
    Incredibly often.
    It's hard for me to answer that quite so confidently. If we're talking about mental illness in general, yes - but we're not. We're talking about people who (a) are mentally ill, (b) are violent, (c) commit some crime, (d) are acquitted on an insanity defense or otherwise avoid prison time, and (e) are treated and released. Keep in mind that an insanity defense is almost impossible in the US; almost all mentally ill offenders are simply convicted and imprisoned, usually with treatment that is inadequate or nonexistent.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  14. #114
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    Re: Seattle Mariners' Halman Stabbed to Death

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    It's hard for me to answer that quite so confidently. If we're talking about mental illness in general, yes - but we're not. We're talking about people who (a) are mentally ill, (b) are violent, (c) commit some crime, (d) are acquitted on an insanity defense or otherwise avoid prison time, and (e) are treated and released. Keep in mind that an insanity defense is almost impossible in the US; almost all mentally ill offenders are simply convicted and imprisoned, usually with treatment that is inadequate or nonexistent.
    That's the real shame in all this.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

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