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  1. #1
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    I know that the other thread is talking about the Stanley Cup Finals, but I wanted to start a new one, especially now that Winnipeg will have the Thrashers for the upcoming season.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=367433

    My cousin lives in Atlanta and his company had season tix at Phillips Arena. He told me that no one ever wanted to go to the games, since "they weren't very good." I doubt the ATL will get a third shot at an NHL team.

  2. #2
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    So will Nashville or Columbus switch to the Eastern conference or will it be 16 and 14?

  3. #3
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    So will Nashville or Columbus switch to the Eastern conference or will it be 16 and 14?
    Right now, Winnipeg Thrashers (?) will still play in the SE Division. But I have heard that this move will allow Detroit go back to the Eastern Conference and move Winnipeg to the Western Conference.

  4. #4
    Emotional Warrior BroadwayBomber55's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Welcome back to hockey talk Boogie.

    Looking forward to the NHL Draft?
    It's not the 27 World Championships that drive the New York Yankees. It's the 28th.
    Every year is The Year. Go Yankees.

  5. #5
    Emotional Warrior BroadwayBomber55's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown Bomber View Post
    Right now, Winnipeg Thrashers (?) will still play in the SE Division. But I have heard that this move will allow Detroit go back to the Eastern Conference and move Winnipeg to the Western Conference.
    I don't think moving the Detroit Red Wings to the Eastern Conference is a good idea. Why? Rivalries.

    I say the Columbus Blue Jackets move to the East.
    It's not the 27 World Championships that drive the New York Yankees. It's the 28th.
    Every year is The Year. Go Yankees.

  6. #6
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Oh god, if Detroit moves to the East you can pretty much pencil them in to the Conference finals every year for the next decade.

  7. #7
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by BroadwayBomber55 View Post
    Welcome back to hockey talk Boogie.

    Looking forward to the NHL Draft?
    Thanks BB55. I am looking forward to it.

  8. #8
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Oh god, if Detroit moves to the East you can pretty much pencil them in to the Conference finals every year for the next decade.
    Hmm...I dunno if Detroit will have the dominance in the East as it has while in the West. Then again, they do have the style of play that would rival the Boston Bruins and Washington Crapitals.

  9. #9
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Wouldn't the easiest fix be moving Nashville to the Southeast Division? Nashville, Tampa, Florida, Carolina, and Washington makes sense.

  10. #10
    Emotional Warrior BroadwayBomber55's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by 26 and counting View Post
    Wouldn't the easiest fix be moving Nashville to the Southeast Division? Nashville, Tampa, Florida, Carolina, and Washington makes sense.
    That can work.
    It's not the 27 World Championships that drive the New York Yankees. It's the 28th.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    So Atlanta loses two NHL teams and they both move to Canada.

  12. #12
    Big Poppa dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Glad to see Winnipeg w/a team again. Atlanta is just a terrible sports town as it is, and hockey had no chance of working there, esp with bad ownership and a bad team.

  13. #13
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    I saw on PTI that Bettman already issued a verbal warning to the City of Winnipeg saying that "this won't work unless the building is sold out every night."

    He is such a tool.

  14. #14
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    I saw on PTI that Bettman already issued a verbal warning to the City of Winnipeg saying that "this won't work unless the building is sold out every night."

    He is such a tool.
    You know...he's such a hypocrite. He did not want this deal to happen, but when the poop hit the fan, he had no chance but to save face on the move. IMO, it should have been the Coyotes who should have moved back.

    On the flipside, he does have a point: Winnipeg is now the smallest market in the NHL. However, it is going to be a much better environment for this hockey team compared to the Atlanta market. I think it will take about 2 years for the team to be a competitive, playoff-calibre team. In the meantime, the Winnipeg Thrashers (?) will playing to sold out houses.

  15. #15

    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown Bomber View Post
    You know...he's such a hypocrite. He did not want this deal to happen, but when the poop hit the fan, he had no chance but to save face on the move. IMO, it should have been the Coyotes who should have moved back.

    On the flipside, he does have a point: Winnipeg is now the smallest market in the NHL. However, it is going to be a much better environment for this hockey team compared to the Atlanta market. I think it will take about 2 years for the team to be a competitive, playoff-calibre team. In the meantime, the Winnipeg Thrashers (?) will playing to sold out houses.
    Of course he didn't want the deal to happen. The best case scenario for the NHL would have been strong ownership in Atlanta, and continued growth for the game. That doesn't make him a hypocrite in any sense. Atlanta has won 2 playoff GAMES between the Flames and Thrashers. Nobody is going to support that kind of team no matter where you put it. Especially with no history of success ever.

    And he's absolutely right about the Manitoba team needing to sell out. I'm honestly hoping that Winnipeg doesn't win a single playoff game for 11 years just like the Thrashers. Just so we can see for certain this argument about traditional hockey markets vs. trying to grow the game.

    The fact of the matter is, bad ownership will kill a team in almost any city outside of the Original 6. It would seem as though True North is a solid ownership group, which is good for the people of Winnipeg. I don't think this move is at all a good one for hockey though.

  16. #16
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23 View Post

    And he's absolutely right about the Manitoba team needing to sell out. I'm honestly hoping that Winnipeg doesn't win a single playoff game for 11 years just like the Thrashers. Just so we can see for certain this argument about traditional hockey markets vs. trying to grow the game.
    Wow...I didn't you felt this strongly about the move. Now, let me ask you this: say the Coyotes fail again next year and they move to say, Quebec City or Hamilton, Ontario. What would be your thoughts? Or say that the Nashville Predators move to Kansas City?

  17. #17

    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown Bomber View Post
    Wow...I didn't you felt this strongly about the move. Now, let me ask you this: say the Coyotes fail again next year and they move to say, Quebec City or Hamilton, Ontario. What would be your thoughts? Or say that the Nashville Predators move to Kansas City?
    Nashville has been fairly successful, so I'm not sure how that example fits. That team is just as likely to be successful in Nashville as it would be Kansas City.

    That said, I don't actually feel strongly about the move itself. It's a business, and True North is going to be more successful in Winnipeg than Atlanta Spirit was in Atlanta. I don't think anyone can argue that. And the people of Winnipeg are absolutely going to appreciate an NHL team more than the people of Atlanta, just like the people of Quebec City would be more appreciative of a team than the people of Phoenix, Sunrise, or even possibly Chicago or Boston.

    Where I feel strongly, is seeing the game grow, because it's an awesome game. I've played every major sport, including 100+ games of baseball per summer from age 13-19. But for me, the most fun to play is ice hockey, and once you start playing, it's probably the most enjoyable to watch as well. I don't think the game is going to grow one bit from having an NHL team in Winnipeg..or Quebec City...or Hamilton. The best way to grow the game would have been to get good owners into Phoenix, Atlanta, Columbus and building those franchises the right way. Then you get increased participation in those areas, then you build your talent pool up to the point where it can support 32 franchises, and then you expand to QC, Hamilton, and/or Winnpeg, because those markets are better suited to support expansion in my opinion.

  18. #18
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23 View Post
    Nashville has been fairly successful, so I'm not sure how that example fits. That team is just as likely to be successful in Nashville as it would be Kansas City.

    That said, I don't actually feel strongly about the move itself. It's a business, and True North is going to be more successful in Winnipeg than Atlanta Spirit was in Atlanta. I don't think anyone can argue that. And the people of Winnipeg are absolutely going to appreciate an NHL team more than the people of Atlanta, just like the people of Quebec City would be more appreciative of a team than the people of Phoenix, Sunrise, or even possibly Chicago or Boston.

    Where I feel strongly, is seeing the game grow, because it's an awesome game. I've played every major sport, including 100+ games of baseball per summer from age 13-19. But for me, the most fun to play is ice hockey, and once you start playing, it's probably the most enjoyable to watch as well. I don't think the game is going to grow one bit from having an NHL team in Winnipeg..or Quebec City...or Hamilton. The best way to grow the game would have been to get good owners into Phoenix, Atlanta, Columbus and building those franchises the right way. Then you get increased participation in those areas, then you build your talent pool up to the point where it can support 32 franchises, and then you expand to QC, Hamilton, and/or Winnpeg, because those markets are better suited to support expansion in my opinion.
    I wholeheartedly agree with your points here. I am in the same boat as you. I played both ice hockey and roller hockey growing up. Therefore, when I moved to the Raleigh area a few years back from the NYC area, I was not sure about the role of hockey on the sports scene. To the credit of the Hurricanes, they have built a solid hockey foundation. Many of the kids (teenagers) I coached in soccer also play on travel ice hockey teams. Granted, the 'Canes did not have a good year, but they still had good attendance for home games, and they really cater to the population that was initially bred on college basketball and NASCAR. In Atlanta, ASG did not do that at all. The in-fighting among owners, and their desire to unload the Thrashers were well-known in the ATL area. But, like you said, it is a business. Which is why I wish the Rangers (and Knickerbockers) were own by someone else other than Jimmy Dolan and Cablevision.

  19. #19
    NYYF MVP

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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23 View Post
    Nashville has been fairly successful, so I'm not sure how that example fits. That team is just as likely to be successful in Nashville as it would be Kansas City.

    That said, I don't actually feel strongly about the move itself. It's a business, and True North is going to be more successful in Winnipeg than Atlanta Spirit was in Atlanta. I don't think anyone can argue that. And the people of Winnipeg are absolutely going to appreciate an NHL team more than the people of Atlanta, just like the people of Quebec City would be more appreciative of a team than the people of Phoenix, Sunrise, or even possibly Chicago or Boston.

    Where I feel strongly, is seeing the game grow, because it's an awesome game. I've played every major sport, including 100+ games of baseball per summer from age 13-19. But for me, the most fun to play is ice hockey, and once you start playing, it's probably the most enjoyable to watch as well. I don't think the game is going to grow one bit from having an NHL team in Winnipeg..or Quebec City...or Hamilton. The best way to grow the game would have been to get good owners into Phoenix, Atlanta, Columbus and building those franchises the right way. Then you get increased participation in those areas, then you build your talent pool up to the point where it can support 32 franchises, and then you expand to QC, Hamilton, and/or Winnpeg, because those markets are better suited to support expansion in my opinion.
    Great points all around. Growing up, ice hockey was by far my favorite sport to play, and learning the nuances of the game definitely made watching it so much more enjoyable.

    It's a great sport that deserves to be more popular than it is.

    I haven't really followed these types of discussions so I could be wrong, but I've always had the impression that Seattle would be a great hockey market. Am I wrong?
    28 in 2014

  20. #20
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23 View Post
    That said, I don't actually feel strongly about the move itself. It's a business, and True North is going to be more successful in Winnipeg than Atlanta Spirit was in Atlanta. I don't think anyone can argue that. And the people of Winnipeg are absolutely going to appreciate an NHL team more than the people of Atlanta, just like the people of Quebec City would be more appreciative of a team than the people of Phoenix, Sunrise, or even possibly Chicago or Boston.
    So was it a case of bad ownership that prompted Quebec and Winnipeg to lose their teams or was it a case of lackadaisical fans that took having a team for granted?

  21. #21

    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    I haven't really followed these types of discussions so I could be wrong, but I've always had the impression that Seattle would be a great hockey market. Am I wrong?
    I've felt the same way about Seattle, the arena situation there is not a good one though, both from an existing structure and a chance of getting one built perspective.

    The one problem I had with the new markets is that the NHL expanded not to the wrong places, but did so too quickly.

    Tampa, Ottawa, San Jose, Florida, Anaheim, Nashville, Columbus, Atlanta, and Minnesota I believe were all expansion franchises between 1990 and 2000. That's 9 new teams in 10 years. At the same time, there were also 4 market shifts (Winnipeg-Phoenix, Quebec-Colorado, Minnesota-Dallas, Hartford-Carolina).

    That's way too much change for a professional league in a relatively short time period. I think it's taken until about now for the talent pool to catch up. So instead of expanding by 2 teams every say 5 years during that time period, meaning Ottawa, Tampa, San Jose in the early 1990's. Anaheim and Florida in the mid 1990's, Minnesota and Atlanta in the early 2000's, and Columbus and Nashville in the mid 2000's.

    Would have allowed for a better gauge on the effects of expansion, very little drop off in the level of play with each expansion, rather than a massive one when it hit its peak in 2000, as well as better recognition of visiting teams outside of those areas. Instead of fans in say, Boston, Philadelphia, or Chicago saying, hey cool, it's one of the (two) new expansion teams, the attitude had become, ugh, we have 15 games a year against one of the "Sunbelt" teams.

  22. #22

    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    So was it a case of bad ownership that prompted Quebec and Winnipeg to lose their teams or was it a case of lackadaisical fans that took having a team for granted?
    Not quite as familiar with either of those situations. But neither QC nor Winnipeg was all that much higher in the early 90's attendance wise than any of the non-traditional markets are now. Winnipeg was far more successful on the ice than Atlanta, Phoenix, or Columbus have been. Quebec had missed the playoffs 5 of 6 years before the season they left (although even that was more successful than Atlanta or Columbus). The last year in Quebec they were (I think) the #1 seed when the Rangers took them out, they were sold after the season, but the attendance didn't crack 15K.

  23. #23
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    So was it a case of bad ownership that prompted Quebec and Winnipeg to lose their teams or was it a case of lackadaisical fans that took having a team for granted?
    Quebec: http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...irth-in-quebec

    Quebec lost the Nords to Colorado in 1995, back when the Canadian dollar was weak.
    Winnipeg: http://http://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/history.aspx
    There were many factors as to why the Jets left and aren't going to return. The primary factor was the Jets' ownership, led by President Barry Shenkarow. A more competently-led club on and off the ice in the preceding years could and should have sustained the team through the financial difficulties it faced in the 1990's that eventually forced their hand in 1995.

  24. #24
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post

    It's a great sport that deserves to be more popular than it is.
    You are right. But unfortunately in this country, ESPN dominates the sports news landscape. Since ESPN does not pay much attention to the NHL and instead, wants to deconstruct the NBA Finals 800 different ways, you won't see hockey's popularity increase. I am hopeful that the new NBC/Vs./Comcast deal will improve the NHL's popularity in the US.

  25. #25
    Guinness for Strength! Boogiedown Bomber's Avatar
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    Re: Official NHL Thread: 2011-2012 Season

    Quote Originally Posted by MTYankee23 View Post
    The last year in Quebec they were (I think) the #1 seed when the Rangers took them out, they were sold after the season, but the attendance didn't crack 15K.
    I attended a Rangers-Nordiques back in 1995, and I remember the Colisee Pepsi was a very small arena. I think it maxed out at 15K, seating capacity. However, it was packed to the rafters.

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