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  1. #26

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    Didn't the Yankees throw the most money at Miguel Cabrera & Felix & they got turned down anyway?
    yea, the problem was again, not enough more money imo.
    always reasonable

  2. #27

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    yea, the problem was again, not enough more money imo.
    oh sweet, completely baseless speculation!
    "Williams could be the Yankees' next great homegrown center fielder. "-BA

  3. #28

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    well it is reasonable to think that there does exist some amount of money at which they would have signed. and this amount in all likelihood is lower than their worth, even taking all the risk of prospect-hood into account.
    always reasonable

  4. #29

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    yea, the problem was again, not enough more money imo.
    \
    Everything is not always spending the most money, it is correctly spending money.. Playing for the Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers, Canadiens, Duke basketball or Notre Dame football involves a lot more pressure and higher expectations than playing in Kansas City, or Seattle. For example: Even great players can fail at it (See Johnson, Randy). As for Cabrera, he has said on more than one occasion that he would not like to play for the Yankees, because of their regimented system (No facial hair, ties and jackets on the road etc). Hernandez and Soria have the Yankees on their no trade list, and guys like Cole and Greg Maddox wanted no part of The Yankee Pressure Cooker.
    The situation with Cole, is why they are placing a high emphasis on drafting guys who actually want to be here (See Bichette, Dante, Marshall, Brett & Mitchell, Bryan as examples of this). The same applies with signing Latin American players: They have learned that money alone does not work: They need guys who can fit into the system, and will not blow up. Besides, sometimes being outbid, and not getting someone can actually work out for the best. Do you think that "Genius" Billy Beane regrets the Ynoa signing? I think that is an unqualified yes!

  5. #30

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    anyone know anything about Juan Carlos Paniagua or DePaula yet they aren't listed on any roster even either of the DSL teams?

    As far as the yankees not being linked to any big names yet with as good as this class is and there not having any high draft picks and the top guy signing for around 600,000 k. I'm sure they be in on alot of the top guys with they way they drafted looking for power corner bats and this class having quite a few and having some extra money from not maxing out there pay roll i bet there going to be big spenders

  6. #31
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    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmxstreetrider86 View Post
    just because players took more money from another team doesnt mean the yankees arent the best. there's far more to being the best than just throwing piles of money at people
    Furthermore, the Yankees may just be better in scouting those IFA players. The Mariners, another long time big spender in IFA market, also didn't sign lots of big names recently. IMO the biggest advantages of those long time big spenders in IFA market are network and baseball facilities in those area. You trust your local scout, not BA's scouting report and agent's word. BA expert and the agent may think that the prospect is worth $6M. It doesn't mean that the prospect is really worth $6M.

  7. #32

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    a couple million isn't going to make a difference if we are talking about the top talents from that market.
    always reasonable

  8. #33

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    a couple million isn't going to make a difference if we are talking about the top talents from that market.
    The way IFA and the draft work is simply this, whoever discusses dollar terms first loses (Which is why dollar amounts matter). We saw this with Mason Wiliams, the Yankees waited him out, until the waining hours before the deadline and got it done. DePaula is another example: People here wanted the Yankees to give him millions, and they signed him for less than a million. If he is able to get a visa, and play, great, if not the team can essentially say whatever, and move on. This has been the approach with Scott Boras, he takes everything up until the deadline, and essentially forces teams to meet his demands. When you are the Mariners, Royals & Rays, and you have less titles, collectively speaking, than the Marlins, you are desperate, and at his mercy, when you are the Yankees with 27 World Championships, you are in a different league, and can say thanks but no thanks.

  9. #34

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    anyone know anything about Juan Carlos Paniagua or DePaula yet they aren't listed on any roster even either of the DSL teams?

    As far as the yankees not being linked to any big names yet with as good as this class is and there not having any high draft picks and the top guy signing for around 600,000 k. I'm sure they be in on alot of the top guys with they way they drafted looking for power corner bats and this class having quite a few and having some extra money from not maxing out there pay roll i bet there going to be big spenders
    A major misconception with the draft, is just because you are picked higher, does not mean you are valued higher: ex: Culver> Williams draft order. Culver< Williams contract, the same thing will likely go for Bichette. As for the Yankees not being linked to anyone, they do their best work, when they are lying in the weeds, like a cobra ready to strike (See Teixeira, Mark). As for signings, I do not expect to see a lot of signings early, because it affects the Draft Class, and their ability to get as many of these guys as possible: Justin James, Daniel Camarena, Chaz Hebert, Chris McCue,Taylor Guilbeau, Jeremy Rathjen, Adam Ravenelle, and last but not least, Spencer O'Neil. O'Neil is a perfect example of this, because he is demanding $1m to sign, and if you give $2m, to some guy from Latin America, then the task ahead becomes harder, because there is more incentive to dig in.

  10. #35

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Januz View Post
    The way IFA and the draft work is simply this, whoever discusses dollar terms first loses (Which is why dollar amounts matter). We saw this with Mason Wiliams, the Yankees waited him out, until the waining hours before the deadline and got it done. DePaula is another example: People here wanted the Yankees to give him millions, and they signed him for less than a million. If he is able to get a visa, and play, great, if not the team can essentially say whatever, and move on. This has been the approach with Scott Boras, he takes everything up until the deadline, and essentially forces teams to meet his demands. When you are the Mariners, Royals & Rays, and you have less titles, collectively speaking, than the Marlins, you are desperate, and at his mercy, when you are the Yankees with 27 World Championships, you are in a different league, and can say thanks but no thanks.
    if you assume the player is going to sign then of course "whoever blinks loses" but that player is a free agent not a draftee. the IFA is still not inflated enough for the whole market to be above efficient cost, so if the yankees lose out on a player that returns 20m value because of unwillingness to pay 5m more, then they lose 15m

    but the fact is the yankees no longer have this kind of leverage (think 30's to 50's domination of amateur talent that kind of leverage) to smoke the "we are the yankees you gotta sign with us" pipe. look at present and future results, not the past.
    Last edited by awy; 06-18-11 at 10:43 AM.
    always reasonable

  11. #36

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    if you assume the player is going to sign then of course "whoever blinks loses" but that player is a free agent not a draftee. the IFA is still not inflated enough for the whole market to be above efficient cost, so if the yankees lose out on a player that returns 20m value because of unwillingness to pay 5m more, then they lose 15m

    but the fact is the yankees no longer have this kind of leverage (think 30's to 50's domination of amateur talent that kind of leverage) to smoke the "we are the yankees you gotta sign with us" pipe. look at present and future results, not the past.
    The Yankees, Red Sox etc still have the advantage over the Astros of the world. The IFA market is just like College Football Recruiting, where the USC's of the world have the advantage over the Washington State's out there. The name USC TROJANS (Like New York Yankees) matters, as does the history and tradition. Which is why they can cherrypick the best players.

  12. #37

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    who cares about the astros

    if that's your target competition might as well not play the game.
    always reasonable

  13. #38
    Be Smart! Buzah!'s Avatar
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    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    King Felix didn't like the Yankee scout and took less money to go to the Mariners. They didn't get outbid.

  14. #39

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Januz View Post
    The Yankees, Red Sox etc still have the advantage over the Astros of the world. The IFA market is just like College Football Recruiting, where the USC's of the world have the advantage over the Washington State's out there. The name USC TROJANS (Like New York Yankees) matters, as does the history and tradition. Which is why they can cherrypick the best players.
    It is an advantage but a slight one at that. The names mean you have a shorter walk to walk but you still have to walk it, you know what I mean?

  15. #40

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzah! View Post
    King Felix didn't like the Yankee scout and took less money to go to the Mariners. They didn't get outbid.
    I heard he signed with the cause of Freddy Garcia was his hero and he wanted to pitch with him

  16. #41

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    anyone know anything about Juan Carlos Paniagua or DePaula yet they aren't listed on any roster even either of the DSL teams?

    As far as the yankees not being linked to any big names yet with as good as this class is and there not having any high draft picks and the top guy signing for around 600,000 k. I'm sure they be in on alot of the top guys with they way they drafted looking for power corner bats and this class having quite a few and having some extra money from not maxing out there pay roll i bet there going to be big spenders
    DePaula ison a DSL roster but hasnt pitched yet, no idea paniagua

  17. #42

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    The Yankees, Rangers, Blue Jays, Athletics, and Padres watched Roberto Osuna throw in Mexico on Thursday, reports Roberto Espinoza of Vanguardia

  18. #43
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    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerface View Post
    The Yankees, Rangers, Blue Jays, Athletics, and Padres watched Roberto Osuna throw in Mexico on Thursday, reports Roberto Espinoza of Vanguardia
    Osuna sounds really interesting. RAB had this to say:

    Via Roberto Espinoza (link in Spanish), the Yankees are one of several teams with serious interest in 15-year-old Mexican right-hander Roberto Osuna, who they watched throw last week. He will turn 16 on July 2nd, so he will be eligible to sign this year. Osuna is the nephew of former Yankee Antonio Osuna and a 6-foot-0, 198 lb. hurler with an idea of how to use three pitches: a low-90′s fastball, a curveball, and a changeup. Hes currently pitching in the Mexican League (5.49 ERA in 19.2 IP), which is somewhere between Double-A and Triple-A in terms of competition.
    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/06/yan...o-osuna-51178/

    I'm not sure if it's common for 15 yr olds to be pitching in the Mexican League, but flashing 3 pitches at that age against advanced competition is pretty awesome.

  19. #44
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    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    According to Baseball America, one of the Yankees' top targets appears to be Miguel Andujar, a Dominican third baseman. He has good bat speed, an advanced righthanded swing and has shown the ability to hit both fastballs and offspeed pitches

  20. #45

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    https://www.baseballprospectus.com/a...rticleid=14302

    not sure if this was posted; but it is baseball prospectus on Osuna...

  21. #46

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    New York Yankees: Surprise! The Yankees are here to play. Even in a year like 2010 when they backed off the most expensive talent, they still found a way to spend more than any team but the Mariners. They've already been busy signing players before July 2, most notably Dominican righthander Juan Carlos Paniagua for $1.1 million in March. With no first-round pick in June, the Yankees will flex their muscles in the international market. They always get linked to a slew of players, but their top targets this year appear to be in the Dominican Republic. Third baseman Miguel Andujar is expected to become another Basilio Vizcaino (Cachasa) player to sign with the Yankees, while outfielder Manuel Marcos and shortstop Luis Reynoso have been mentioned as their other prime targets.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/onlin...1/2612029.html

  22. #47
    Be Smart! Buzah!'s Avatar
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    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Little over an hour, till signing season begins.

  23. #48
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    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzah! View Post
    Little over an hour, till signing season begins.

    Do you expect that we will hear anything tonight?
    "No, I would not like to reconsider being a Yankee fan, and no, marrying a New Englander should have no bearing on it."

  24. #49
    Be Smart! Buzah!'s Avatar
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    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    I have no idea.

  25. #50

    Re: 2011 International Free Agent Thread

    I really do not expect to see any major action on the Yankee IFA front until after August 15th (The last day to sign draftees), this is what we saw last year. There are several reasons for this. 1: The major focus for the organization will not be signing prospects, it will be the July 31st trading deadline (Trying to win Title #28 is priority #1). 2: The goal after that is trying to get certain draftees signed (And making sure others who are leaning that way ( Camarena ?) remain that way): The worst possible scenario is offering a Latin player a huge contract and he turns the team down (See Ynoa, Michael), and because of that, they lose a chance at Ravenelle, McCue, O'Neil, Rathjen, Thompson, or someone else, because of increased contract demnds. 3: Players and their representatives generally speaking, come out with huge demands, the longer it takes, the more desperate they get, and the lower the asking price becomes (Particularly true, if other teams follow the Yankee lead and do the same thing). Keep in mind, after signing Mason Williams, they still signed managed to sign DePaula. Of course, he has the identity theft baggage, but they had a plan and stuck to it (Which meant being patient, and instead of making a crazy offer to DePaula (Like some on this board wanted), and maybe losing Williams, they may end up with both (And DePaula will be at a reduced rate)).

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