+ Reply to Thread
Page 339 of 422 FirstFirst ... 239 289 329 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 349 389 ... LastLast
Results 8,451 to 8,475 of 10527
  1. #8451
    ptcnyyfan
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    How exciting.
    It's more like, "and?".

  2. #8452
    Mr. Know-It-All Casey at the Bat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Pasadena, CA

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Well, that was an impressive start by the sox rookie Brandon Workman. Takes no hitter into the 7th. Pitches 6.1 innings, 2 runs, 2 hits, 1 bb, 5 ks. First start ever, I think.

  3. #8453
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    So you are using a Boston media hatchet job saying that Crawford and Gonzalez were malcontent phonies to somehow support your argument that Crawford is a bad player?

    Numbers don't lie. Even if both players are somewhat overpaid, they are still providing LA with significant offensive contributions.
    Since you liked the previous one so much, here's another

    The scene in the Sox clubhouse after Friday night’s 4-2 win over the A’s said a lot about the 2013 Red Sox. While John Lackey — the poster boy for Red Sox rehabilitation — smiled and held court with the media (two things that never happened in 2011 or 2012), a group of players sat together around a small table in the cramped clubhouse. Jonny Gomes, Andrew Bailey, Mike Napoli, Jon Lester, Ryan Dempster, and Jacoby Ellsbury chatted and joked as they tore into the postgame food spread. It was the image of clubhouse camaraderie, something that was sadly missing throughout 2012.

    This wouldn’t have happened in Oakland last year. For starters, there was rarely an afterglow of victory. The Sox went 0-6 in Alameda County. Oakland is where Bobby V arrived late to the ballpark after getting stuck in traffic while picking up his adult son at the airport. Last year we would have seen Aaron Cook, Scott Podsednik, Danny Valencia, Pedro Ciriaco, Mauro Gomez, and maybe Daisuke Matsuzaka in the Sox clubhouse. We would have seen Adrian “The Cooler” Gonzalez bitching about umpires or Sunday night charters. We would have seen Carl Crawford searching for imaginary boogeymen and snarling Josh Beckett looking for snitches instead of getting in shape.
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...xeJ/story.html

  4. #8454
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    Since you liked the previous one so much, here's another



    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...xeJ/story.html
    It's great how Lackey can be rehabilitated (when he's actually be seen giving his teammates dirty looks on the field, both in Boston and Anaheim) and Gonzalez is a "cooler" and the others are negative guys. I'm heartened to see the Boston media remain as objective and thoughtful as ever.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  5. #8455
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NJ

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyK8 View Post
    What will be exciting, at least from my perspective, is a series in late July with the Yankees at Fenway right after the All-Star Break that will mean something. I guess it hasn't been that long since that has happened, but after last year, it seems like a lot longer.
    Why would it excite you to see your team face a AAA squad with rehabbing players such as Robinson Cano and Brett Gardner?

  6. #8456
    Attorney at Bird Law Bronson'sCornrows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New Bedford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    Well, that was an impressive start by the sox rookie Brandon Workman. Takes no hitter into the 7th. Pitches 6.1 innings, 2 runs, 2 hits, 1 bb, 5 ks. First start ever, I think.
    Hell yeah, it was. The ump seemed to have a somewhat generous zone for both him and Colon, but I was nonetheless impressed and HUGELY surprised. I was expecting a total garbage start giving his inexperience and his only previous outing in relief. It's just too bad we let the kid down. Overall I'm disappointed, but objectively I should be happy we managed to go 5-5 over a west coast trip considering how poorly we usually fare out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    It's great how Lackey can be rehabilitated (when he's actually be seen giving his teammates dirty looks on the field, both in Boston and Anaheim) and Gonzalez is a "cooler" and the others are negative guys. I'm heartened to see the Boston media remain as objective and thoughtful as ever.
    Yeah, it seems pretty specious to say the least. Not that I necessarily disagree with the accusations of Beckett, Crawford, or A-Gonz sometimes being negative influences or embodying the culture of defeat in the clubhouse, I just don't see how Lackey has been "rehabilitated".

    It seems pretty apparent to me that the only reason Lackey has been more agreeable of late is that A. the team is performing well and B. his individual performance has been excellent. I'm guessing B means a lot more to him than A and, yes, he still does his thing where he gives dirty looks to teammates who fail to make spectacular plays on rockets he gives up. He's just giving up fewer this year so it's less noticeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Why would it excite you to see your team face a AAA squad with rehabbing players such as Robinson Cano and Brett Gardner?
    Was thinking the same thing... I'm not so sure he's excited because he honestly believes these games will "mean something" or if he's just excited to see a rejuvenated Sox team pound a Yankees team every bit as crippled as the 2012 Sox. Just the way he words stuff sometimes, I guess.

  7. #8457
    NYYF Legend

    TommyK8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Trumbull, CT

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    The Yankees are five games out in the loss column. They are probably lining up Sabathia, Kuroda and Pettitte to pitch in Boston. I think this meets the definition of games that mean something, and has nothing to do with the way I said it.

  8. #8458
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    It's great how Lackey can be rehabilitated (when he's actually be seen giving his teammates dirty looks on the field, both in Boston and Anaheim) and Gonzalez is a "cooler" and the others are negative guys. I'm heartened to see the Boston media remain as objective and thoughtful as ever.
    The first 3 years of his contract are a sunk cost, and they are what they were. The next 3 years including this one, with the clause in his contract have him for 10 per.

    "Anytime we trade for, or sign, an older pitcher, if you have an MRI of his arm, it looks like a bomb went off," Hazen said. "None of these guys are clean. But it's not just wear and tear. Is he pitching healthy? Well, he shut us out in the playoffs [in 2009], so yeah, he's still dealing. You look at a velocity drop, but that doesn't mean he was hurt."

    Was Lackey hurt from the time he got here?

    "I don't know, that's hard to say," Hazen said. "He took the ball and didn't complain. Maybe he wasn't healthy, but he took the ball, which is why he's so respected in the clubhouse. Beyond all the other stuff -- the way he treats everybody, which is off the charts -- it's that toughness that has got the respect of the clubhouse.

    "Even when was going through all that stuff, if the team needed him he went out and pitched. He never said anything, never bitched. He was frustrated, obviously, but looking at the guy now, he obviously made some hard choices and made some changes
    http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/...-internal-rift

  9. #8459
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    The first 3 years of his contract are a sunk cost, and they are what they were. The next 3 years including this one, with the clause in his contract have him for 10 per.



    http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/...-internal-rift
    I don't see how that is relevant to the fact that the Boston media are much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than the guys who left (who they've been ripping). It's especially interesting because Lackey's transgressions were so visible to all who paid attention. I don't seem to recall the praise for him when people were bemoaning his injury and the fact that they wouldn't be able to dump him as well as the other guys
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  10. #8460
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    I don't see how that is relevant to the fact that the Boston media are much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than the guys who left (who they've been ripping). It's especially interesting because Lackey's transgressions were so visible to all who paid attention. I don't seem to recall the praise for him when people were bemoaning his injury and the fact that they wouldn't be able to dump him as well as the other guys
    Which is your conjecture. If you believe Hazen is making this up then take issue with that, but it certainly seems relevant.

  11. #8461
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    Which is your conjecture. If you believe Hazen is making this up then take issue with that, but it certainly seems relevant.
    You don't remember Lackey being bashed by the Boston media? Seriously?

    Beer? Chicken? Glares at his teammates?

    Oh, and this:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-sox-clubhouse
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  12. #8462
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    This is what I know, Lackey spent all of 2012 rehabbing with the team, on the road and in Boston. If they hated him that would not have happened. Also, who did they trade and who did they keep, if they wanted to trade Lackey at 3/$30m it would not have been too difficult.

    As far as the BleacherReport link from the esteemed Gary Tanguay, who else connected themselves with that?, nobody.

  13. #8463
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    This is what I know, Lackey spent all of 2012 rehabbing with the team, on the road and in Boston. If they hated him that would not have happened. Also, who did they trade and who did they keep, if they wanted to trade Lackey at 3/$30m it would not have been too difficult.

    As far as the BleacherReport link from the esteemed Gary Tanguay, who else connected themselves with that?, nobody.
    Read the post I made that you responded to -- it's about the Boston media. Tanguay is a member of that august group. I'm thinking you missed that.

    As for trading Lackey, even at that contract, it's not an easy thing with an injured player (if you want to get anything of value back, that is) -- but, if you're really interested, google Lackey and trade and you'll see pages of different scenarios that were rumored to be discussed last year.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  14. #8464
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Read the post I made that you responded to -- it's about the Boston media. Tanguay is a member of that august group. I'm thinking you missed that.
    Tanguay is the Boston equivalent of Manish Mehta, it may be the separation of Dante's 7 rings, but there are better sportswriters in both towns.

  15. #8465
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    Tanguay is the Boston equivalent of Manish Mehta, it may be the separation of Dante's 7 rings, but there are better sportswriters in both towns.
    I picked that article because it was literally one of the first things that came up in google. It's not hard to find other bashing of Lackey's behavior

    http://www.csnne.com/article/merloni...avior-disgrace

    My point is, and remains, that those guys were bashed as a group (Lackey, probably most of all between the glares, chicken and beer); Lackey stays, and is suddenly a good teammate. A guy like Crawford also has a resurgence in LA, but he'll still be the caricature that the Boston media created.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  16. #8466
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    I picked that article because it was literally one of the first things that came up in google. It's not hard to find other bashing of Lackey's behavior

    http://www.csnne.com/article/merloni...avior-disgrace

    My point is, and remains, that those guys were bashed as a group (Lackey, probably most of all between the glares, chicken and beer); Lackey stays, and is suddenly a good teammate. A guy like Crawford also has a resurgence in LA, but he'll still be the caricature that the Boston media created.
    Which is it, you keep trying to move the goalposts, Lackey's bad behavior(disgrace) from this post or the link from Bleacher Report you offered that you are now backing away from.

  17. #8467
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    Which is it, you keep trying to move the goalposts, Lackey's bad behavior(disgrace) from this post or the link from Bleacher Report you offered that you are now backing away from.
    Moving the goalposts? I've been consistently making the same point since the first post you responded to (from above):

    It's great how Lackey can be rehabilitated (when he's actually be seen giving his teammates dirty looks on the field, both in Boston and Anaheim) and Gonzalez is a "cooler" and the others are negative guys. I'm heartened to see the Boston media remain as objective and thoughtful as ever
    .

    I'm not sure what your issue is with that statement, but you haven't disproved it with anything you've said.
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  18. #8468
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Moving the goalposts? I've been consistently making the same point since the first post you responded to (from above):

    .
    The quote from Bleacher Report that you gave last night and couldn't help yourself from some snark when delivering

    states that Lackey was the snitch. Now it's just that Lackey is a bad guy - glares, beer, and chicken. Or, maybe I'm mistaken and he is still the snitch.

  19. #8469
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Too Close to Fenway

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    The quote from Bleacher Report that you gave last night and couldn't help yourself from some snark when delivering



    states that Lackey was the snitch. Now it's just that Lackey is a bad guy - glares, beer, and chicken. Or, maybe I'm mistaken and he is still the snitch.
    As I've reiterated, my point has always been about the way that the Boston media have rehabilitated Lackey while ripping apart the guys that left.

    Because of your continued inability to grasp that, I posted a couple examples of their former ire toward Lackey. They all demonstrate how the now great teammate was once ripped part in the media.

    What's hard about this?
    "Welcome to NYYFans, the place where Yankees fans come together to complain about the manner in which our team is winning games" -- Mr. Coffee

  20. #8470
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    As I've reiterated, my point has always been about the way that the Boston media have rehabilitated Lackey while ripping apart the guys that left.

    Because of your continued inability to grasp that, I posted a couple examples of their former ire toward Lackey. They all demonstrate how the now great teammate was once ripped part in the media.

    What's hard about this?
    So, you are saying that part of the overarching meme of Lackey being a bad person, is that you agree with Tanguay, and Lackey is the snitch. Because if you are saying he is the snitch that is a pretty big deal, more than just that you posted a couple of examples in a simply random selection of quotes you came upon.

  21. #8471
    NYYF Legend

    TommyK8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Trumbull, CT

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    One thing I think is being exaggerated here is how good Crawford has been for the Dodgers this year. As of today, he's hitting .273, with only 9 sb's in 59 games and an OPS+ of 112. He's missed close to 40% of the Dodgers games this year, and he's only started 48 of their 94 games.

    Beckett was awful, then he went out due to injury for the remainder of the season.

    Gonzalez is doing the best of the three, but he's still gone from a guy who used to walk more than 100 times a year to a guy who has walked 29 times this year in 91 games. He has a 131 OPS+, which is still 5 points below his career OPS+ and more than 20 points below his last three years prior to last year (162, 152, 155).

    The reason I think that these guys are referred to the way they are in the press is primarily because the Red Sox have done so much better since they left. They collapsed in 2011, they finished last in 2012, and there has been a huge turnaround since they departed. Maybe the turnaround is not related to their departure (plus Bobby V.), but it sure feels like it is.

  22. #8472
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
    So, you are saying that part of the overarching meme of Lackey being a bad person, is that you agree with Tanguay, and Lackey is the snitch. Because if you are saying he is the snitch that is a pretty big deal, more than just that you posted a couple of examples in a simply random selection of quotes you came upon.
    You are trying really hard to discredit what seemed to be pretty broad acceptance that Lackey has not been a favorite of the media, fans and teammates since signing that deal. I get that you're a Sox fan and want to go to the well with Lackey when talking about him amongst Yankee fans, but you're really nitpicking YFIB's comments. There are numerous published reports of on-the-field and off-the-field events that the media, fans and teammates took Lackey to task for. Right or wrong, big or small, that's pretty indisputable.

    And as is wont to happen, now that he's pitching better that stuff fades away.

    Also - your assertion that they held on to Lackey ("who did they trade and who did they keep") is a laugher. So you don't think if they could have unloaded Lackey as part of that deal or another they wouldn't have jumped at it? Let's not pretend that they wouldn't have dumped him in a heartbeat if they could have found a taker for him.

  23. #8473
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyK8 View Post
    Gonzalez is doing the best of the three, but he's still gone from a guy who used to walk more than 100 times a year to a guy who has walked 29 times this year in 91 games. He has a 131 OPS+, which is still 5 points below his career OPS+ and more than 20 points below his last three years prior to last year (162, 152, 155).
    The irony is that Loney, whom Gonzalez replaced, is going off in Tampa (131 OPS+) on a 1/$2MM deal.

    The reason I think that these guys are referred to the way they are in the press is primarily because the Red Sox have done so much better since they left. They collapsed in 2011, they finished last in 2012, and there has been a huge turnaround since they departed. Maybe the turnaround is not related to their departure (plus Bobby V.), but it sure feels like it is.
    I think that is kind of the point though. When they were losing and Lackey was struggling - if even pitching at all - he was demonized. On the field and off it. Now that they're winning and Lackey is pitching better, suddenly he's a ray of sunshine in that clubhouse. And IMHO I think Valentine's departure honestly had more to do with the changes you're seeing than did Gonzalez, Beckett and Crawford's.

  24. #8474

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    have to give it up to the Red Sox front office. They are showing the public what a competent organization can do to completely revitalize and refurbish the culture and substance of a team within a short period of time. I knew this would be the outcome last year when a lot of the posters on this forum were celebrating the "demise" of the red sox. But they were doing the right thing which was to completely rebuild the team and endure a brief season of ineptitude while setting up the franchise for the future.

    Like a tale of two cities, here in New York we are instead wallowing in purgatory with no end in sight. Really a shame we can't even give baseball fans a meaningful rivalry series coming out of the all star break fielding the AAA team like we are doing tonight.

  25. #8475
    Addicted Member
    1970cs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Hartford

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post

    And as is wont to happen, now that he's pitching better that stuff fades away.

    Also - your assertion that they held on to Lackey ("who did they trade and who did they keep") is a laugher. So you don't think if they could have unloaded Lackey as part of that deal or another they wouldn't have jumped at it? Let's not pretend that they wouldn't have dumped him in a heartbeat if they could have found a taker for him.
    No, coming off TJ and having Lackey for 3/$30m is a bargain given the current market, even if he came back this season and beyond as a .500 #4 or #5 there is still a market for that. How much better are Hughes, Garza, or Lester at this point?

    Lackey is no saint, it is what it is.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts