The Red Sox Thread

[WaltKowalski]

He's still never shown any plate control whatsoever. Guys who walk that little and strikeout that much don't tend to have lengthy, impressive MLB careers. He's going to be a crummy journeyman, bouncing around the league within three seasons.

As a 23 y/o he hit 15 HR's in 267 AB's. Can we calm down with the "he'll never have a career in MLB" thing?
Give me your prediction for his 2013 season. Let's say he gets 500 PA's. Use any stat you want, BA/HR/RBI or OPS or OPS+, whatever. I'm curious since you already seem to know that he'll be out of a job in a couple of years.

[ieddyi]

John Farrel says " DOH "

Great timing Johnboy

[YankeePride1967]

John Farrel says " DOH "

Great timing Johnboy

Yes, he's got to be wondering if he can do a do over in his choice to leave.

[SatchelPaigeYankee]

Given that they (still can't believe it) were able to shed Wells to the Angels, that's $42MM they saved for the next two years. Their payroll was $83MM and they have a few unimportant players coming off the books. I can believe it. They were well positioned to make a deal like this.

right. the rest of their roster is sooo cheap.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...2-roster.shtml

after Bautista, most of their next best-paid players----Kelly Johnson, Carlos Villanueva, Yunel, Francisco Cordero---are leaving. Their 2013 salary, before this trade, minus Yunel, would be 57.9M.

John Farrel says " DOH "

Great timing Johnboy

tell me about it

[Yogi]

If the Yanks resign Kuroda I think there will be very little difference between the 2012 and the 2013 Yankees. Toronto just got Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle and Jose Reyes and even without them are a team on the rise, Baltimore will be very good and so will Tampa Bay. Other than Boston I see a very strong division once again.

I keep hearing people raving over this group that Toronto got from Miami, Yes they look good on paper but keep in mind that Miami lost 93 games and finished in last place with all of those guys last year. Plus Johnson and Beurhle will be pitching in the American League East in a hitter's friendly ball park and the gimpy legged Reyes will be playing on turf. Also in the case of Johnson he looked great in Miami but another guy, Carl Pavano, looked like a #1 or #2 in a Florida uniform too. Success is not a given.

[pleasepassthesoup]

I keep hearing people raving over this group that Toronto got from Miami, Yes they look good on paper but keep in mind that Miami lost 93 games and finished in last place with all of those guys last year. Plus Johnson and Beurhle will be pitching the American League East in a hitters he could be another Carl Pavano, a guy who looked like a #1 in a Florida uniform. Success is not a given.

They lost 93 games with those guys and a lot of other guys who are much worse than them.

[Yogi]

They lost 93 games with those guys and a lot of other guys who are much worse than them.

Yes and Toronto lost 89 games with the group they had and they gave up some good ML talent in Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechavarria, and Henderson Alvarezin in that trade too. Plus they gave up a number of good prospects that may preclude them from putting together the rest of the pieces they need to be competitive.

[pleasepassthesoup]

Yes and Toronto lost 89 games with the group they had and they gave up some good ML talent in Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechavarria, and Henderson Alvarezin in that trade too. Plus they gave up a number of good prospects that may preclude them from putting together the rest of the pieces they need to be competitive.

Toronto lost so many games because their roster was absolutely decimated by injury. They had the talent to be a .500 or better team. They've improved. They gave up talent, but they got more talent back, particularly in the short term.

[snapple]

I think at one point Romero was the only SP in the rotation that was part of the rotation on opening day.

[SatchelPaigeYankee]

Yes and Toronto lost 89 games with the group they had and they gave up some good ML talent in Yunel Escobar, Adeiny Hechavarria, and Henderson Alvarezin in that trade too. Plus they gave up a number of good prospects that may preclude them from putting together the rest of the pieces they need to be competitive.

they kept all of their good prospects.

[YankeePride1967]

I keep hearing people raving over this group that Toronto got from Miami, Yes they look good on paper but keep in mind that Miami lost 93 games and finished in last place with all of those guys last year. Plus Johnson and Beurhle will be pitching in the American League East in a hitter's friendly ball park and the gimpy legged Reyes will be playing on turf. Also in the case of Johnson he looked great in Miami but another guy, Carl Pavano, looked like a #1 or #2 in a Florida uniform too. Success is not a given.

Well the Toronto Blue Jays are not the Miami Marlins. Aside from the players they received, there will be 20-21 players that did not play for the Marlins so that being the case there is no reason to compare the two teams.

[RenoHightower]

As a 23 y/o he hit 15 HR's in 267 AB's. Can we calm down with the "he'll never have a career in MLB" thing?
Give me your prediction for his 2013 season. Let's say he gets 500 PA's. Use any stat you want, BA/HR/RBI or OPS or OPS+, whatever. I'm curious since you already seem to know that he'll be out of a job in a couple of years.

Jeff Francoeur had 14 home runs in 257 abs with an almost identical K/BB ratio at 21. How'd he turn out?

Middlebrooks struck out more than 5 times as often as he walked last year. Since integration, there have been 91 players to amass 1000 career PAs with a K:BB over 4. Only six (6) of them posted an OPS+ above 100, the highest of which is Mark Trumbo's 118, and if his second half last year is any indication, he may not remain an impact hitter much longer. Even if you lower the threshold to 3.5:1, you're talking about 141 players with 1000 career PAs and only 14 of them with an OPS+ over 100. And the only one with at least 5000 PAs is Tony Armas, who posted a rather pedestrian 103.

The point is, there's literally no precedent for a player to hit like Middlebrooks long-term. There's plenty of precedent for guys to hit like that in the short term, but looking at the list, a long and healthy career doesn't seem likely.

[Bronson'sCornrows]

I think (= hope) that Walt's point was more that Middlebrooks still might grow and develop as a hitter and close the enormously awful gaps between his K and BB rates. As Sox fans, we all certainly hope that's the case. I don't believe, though I may be wrong, that he was implying that Middlebrooks could maintain such abysmal plate discipline and still maintain or surpass the numbers he put up last year.

Personally, I'm rather skeptical that he will improve significantly enough to maintain his numbers long term, but I'm hopeful that he will.

[ArodEra]

Sox are reportedly hot after Napoli. It that happens, will be interesting to see how many times his mother's nip-slip pic will make its way onto this thread.

[just-blaze]

As a 23 y/o he hit 15 HR's in 267 AB's. Can we calm down with the "he'll never have a career in MLB" thing?
Give me your prediction for his 2013 season. Let's say he gets 500 PA's. Use any stat you want, BA/HR/RBI or OPS or OPS+, whatever. I'm curious since you already seem to know that he'll be out of a job in a couple of years.

He reminds me a little of Shea Hillenbrand.

[freebubba]

Lucchino was on D&C this morning and said the Red Sox would have an announcement regarding a corner OF in the next day or so. He did say that it wasn't a big name, so that would rule out Swisher for now. And, apparently the mantra for the 2013 Red Sox is "deep depth". Not sure how that compares to "historic depth", but we'll see.

[Chacon]

Lucchino was on D&C this morning and said the Red Sox would have an announcement regarding a corner OF in the next day or so. He did say that it wasn't a big name, so that would rule out Swisher for now. And, apparently the mantra for the 2013 Red Sox is "deep depth". Not sure how that compares to "historic depth", but we'll see.

Must that team have a laughable meme every year?

[4bronxbombers]

Swish might not do so well in beantown either - it's no picnic there either with struggling players. boooo

[MoVaughnEatsAlot]

Everytime I hear the term "historic depth" I think about John Smoltz getting hit into retirement by the Yankees. I kind of felt bad, but only because it was Smoltz.

[b-ball-lunachick]

Everytime I hear the term "historic depth" I think about John Smoltz getting hit into retirement by the Yankees. I kind of felt bad, but only because it was Smoltz.

It would make me smile if that's what I thought of...

[Gigi Buffon]

Who is their 1Bman?

[freebubba]

Who is their 1Bman?

Great question. I think Loney is a non-tender candidate, which makes it a thin group to choose from. I have to believe come opening day it will be one of either Swisher or Napoli, rotating in some in-house solutions here and there.

[RenoHightower]

Everytime I hear the term "historic depth" I think about John Smoltz getting hit into retirement by the Yankees. I kind of felt bad, but only because it was Smoltz.

Really? I loathe John Smoltz.

[sweet_lou_14]

Really? I loathe John Smoltz.

Smoltz has always been a sympathetic figure, I think. He was very open about his successful use of a sports psychiatrist to overcome pitching anxiety.

From a Yankees fan perspective, he was extremely gracious in speaking for the Braves after the 1999 World Series sweep.

[b-ball-lunachick]

]Smoltz has always been a sympathetic figure, I think. [/B] He was very open about his successful use of a sports psychiatrist to overcome pitching anxiety.

From a Yankees fan perspective, he was extremely gracious in speaking for the Braves after the 1999 World Series sweep.

Not anymore...I had a lot of respect for him until asked about legalizing gay marriage and he said "what's next, marrying an animal?" - sorry can't get past that one...