The Red Sox Thread

[Yankees1962]

Looks like Ortiz is heading back to the DL. I wonder if this is the end for him in Boston.

[4LouGehrig]

I hear all this stuff about how the Sox management has learned its lesson and will change their "model" of operation.

How is giving Swisher the multi-year Werth-type, deal any different than what they did with Crawford? Crawford was younger and rated more highly than is Swisher now.

Boston and New York are tough places to play in. The media is all over them.

Swisher could handle Boston with ease. I don't think Crawford could. Actually, Manny Ramirez would have been better off if he'd stayed with the Indians.

[NerfBall55]

I don't think the Red Sox would go crazy on a guy like Swisher.

Then I don't think they will get him. Somebody will pay this guy.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I don't think the Red Sox would go crazy on a guy like Swisher. How much will the Yankees offer him to come back? I know they supposedly desperately want to get under $189 million by 2014, but how do they do it when they are going to have to break open the piggy bank for Cano, and Granderson could cost a good amount, and they are going to have to invest pretty heavily in the pitching staff by 2014 unless they fill two spots from the minors.

Given what's gone on the past few years in the FA market, I don't think you can just look at the Yankees and Red Sox -- most of the money's been spent by other teams recently.

Also, any agent worth his salt is going to get a premium out of the Red Sox this offseason. While the Nick Punto trade cleared up the clubhouse a bit, it's still not going to be a first choice for a lot of FAs (or at least, agents are still going to position it that way) -- particularly if Valentine is still around.

[ajra21]

This is an excellent deal for the Red Sox. Cherrington should be praised. Really impressive.

For the Dodgers, if I had $260m to spend, wouldn't spend it on Beckett and Crawford. And I certainly wouldn't give up good prospects for the opportunity to pay them that money.

[RenoHightower]

Boston and New York are tough places to play in. The media is all over them.

Swisher could handle Boston with ease. I don't think Crawford could. Actually, Manny Ramirez would have been better off if he'd stayed with the Indians.

Ramirez was an incredible performer for almost his entire tenure with Boston. He wouldn't have been better off in Cleveland.

Boston isn't signing Swisher. They're going to be bad next year with or without him, so they arent going to throw big contracts at second-tier guys like Swisher. I can't believe this is even being discussed.

[teknetic]

Why not? Swisher makes a ton of sense for them. He'd be easily penciled in at 1B (Loney is trash)/RF and he wouldn't, like you mentioned, cost as much as a guy like Hamilton. I doubt they think they'll be competitive, but I don't see why they'd stand pat and not add anything of significance to make their team better for 2014 and onwards.

It'd be hilarious reading the response on SoSH if they did sign him, though. They absolutely loathe the guy.

[philleotardo]

Why not? Swisher makes a ton of sense for them.

It would seem that after dumping three big contracts, giving a six or seven year deal to a 32 year old is the opposite of how they would want to build. I think they would be more likely to sign several smaller deals or try and acquire younger, cost-controlled players through trade and sign those players to long term deals. Who those players are I couldn't tell you, but Billy Beane always seems willing to spin almost any player in return for a small overpay in prospects (Cespedes?). They could also try to overwhelm Seattle for Felix.

[NerfBall55]

They could also try to overwhelm Seattle for Felix.

With?

Seattle already turned down the "pick five" of Bucchholz, Masterson, Bard, Reddick, Dubront, Hagadone, and Bowden.

What do you think it would take. I don't think all their "B"s gets it done. Seattle's rebuilding around Hernandez and has plenty of cash.

[philleotardo]

With?

Seattle already turned down the "pick five" of Bucchholz, Masterson, Bard, Reddick, Dubront, Hagadone, and Bowden.

What do you think it would take. I don't think all their "B"s
gets it done. Seattle's rebuilding around Hernandez and has plenty of cash.

Just being hypothetical. My suggestion was not meant Felix specifically, but players younger and higher upside than Swisher.
But if I were to suggest a package (even though I don't believe they will ever trade Felix), I think a "pick 5" that involves Xander, Barnes, Bradley, Webster is better than the group listed above.

[Bronson'sCornrows]

Why not? Swisher makes a ton of sense for them. He'd be easily penciled in at 1B (Loney is trash)/RF and he wouldn't, like you mentioned, cost as much as a guy like Hamilton. I doubt they think they'll be competitive, but I don't see why they'd stand pat and not add anything of significance to make their team better for 2014 and onwards.

It'd be hilarious reading the response on SoSH if they did sign him, though. They absolutely loathe the guy.

That's odd. I've been a big fan of the guy since he was an Athletic. That being said, I'd rather not see him in a Sox uni next year. Some idiot is going to offer him something close to JD Drew money. JD Drew didn't even deserve JD Drew money and he was a better player than Nick Swisher.

[rajah]

This, I think, is an easy question. You don't give a player like Crawford a huge contract, and then ask him to come in and play a game that he's not suited for and he can't possibly justify that kind of contract. Part of his game was being a good left-fielder, but playing half of your games in Fenway negated that part of the value. A lot of his game was running and causing havoc on the basepaths...by the end of the year, pitchers weren't even throwing over to first base and he only attempted 24 steals. He's not a great OBP guy, he's not a great power hitter...if he wasn't going to use all his game, why sign him? It was a colossal mistake.

I don't think the Red Sox would go crazy on a guy like Swisher. How much will the Yankees offer him to come back? I know they supposedly desperately want to get under $189 million by 2014, but how do they do it when they are going to have to break open the piggy bank for Cano, and Granderson could cost a good amount, and they are going to have to invest pretty heavily in the pitching staff by 2014 unless they fill two spots from the minors.

I understand why signing Crawford was particularly unwise for the Sox. I thought so at the time, though I certainly did not anticipate how bad it would be. I think the Sox were unlucky with his performance and injuries.

But this is not very relevant to Swisher, who will be 32. He is asking for a Werth-type, long multi-year contract and will probably get it from some team. that is going "crazy" and is the same sort of mistake the Sox made with Crawford. If someone does not make him a "crazy" offer, the Yankees will sign him because he loves NY, would prefer playing there, and is popular with the fans, if not other ball players particularly. (IMO, the Yankees will not re-sign Granderson.)

Bottom line, if the Sox management maintains discipline, they won't sign Swisher. If they sign him, it will show they are still in the undisciplined free spending mode to make a splash against the rivals to the south.

[rajah]

Boston and New York are tough places to play in. The media is all over them.

Swisher could handle Boston with ease. I don't think Crawford could. Actually, Manny Ramirez would have been better off if he'd stayed with the Indians.

Maybe Manny would have, but not the Red Sox, who won 2 WS's they would not have won without him.

[ArodEra]

Rubby De La Rosa reportedly has a bad attitude. It would be precious if the Sox traded one clubhouse cancer for another.

Rubby De La Rosa has a million-dollar arm and nickel attitude, and the Dodgers didn't lament losing him.

Passan
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/10-degr...-poisoned.html

[RenoHightower]

I understand why signing Crawford was particularly unwise for the Sox. I thought so at the time, though I certainly did not anticipate how bad it would be. I think the Sox were unlucky with his performance and injuries.

But this is not very relevant to Swisher, who will be 32. He is asking for a Werth-type, long multi-year contract and will probably get it from some team. that is going "crazy" and is the same sort of mistake the Sox made with Crawford. If someone does not make him a "crazy" offer, the Yankees will sign him because he loves NY, would prefer playing there, and is popular with the fans, if not other ball players particularly. (IMO, the Yankees will not re-sign Granderson.)

Bottom line, if the Sox management maintains discipline, they won't sign Swisher. If they sign him, it will show they are still in the undisciplined free spending mode to make a splash against the rivals to the south.

Not just undisciplined, but stupid. You don't spend big money to add a player like Swisher to a 70-win roster. He's not the kind of player that's going to make a major impact, and by the time the rest of the roster is good enough to compete, he'll be over the hill. The Red Sox aren't signing Swisher or Michael Bourn or any other second-tier, borderline AS players to huge contracts taking them into their late 30s. Those kinds of players get signed by teams in "win now" mode, with the tacit acknowledgement that the contract is going to be a negative at the end of it, because they know that a Swisher or a Bourn might put them over the top now. You don't rebuild around Nick Swisher, and that's what the Sox need to do at this point.

[teknetic]

It would seem that after dumping three big contracts, giving a six or seven year deal to a 32 year old is the opposite of how they would want to build. I think they would be more likely to sign several smaller deals or try and acquire younger, cost-controlled players through trade and sign those players to long term deals. Who those players are I couldn't tell you, but Billy Beane always seems willing to spin almost any player in return for a small overpay in prospects (Cespedes?). They could also try to overwhelm Seattle for Felix.

I don't see him getting a 6-7 year deal. This was on the assumption that he'd sign for something like 5/60-70ish. It's unlikely, you're right, but it isn't totally farfetched that they'd make a play for him.

[RenoHightower]

I don't see him getting a 6-7 year deal. This was on the assumption that he'd sign for something like 5/60-70ish. It's unlikely, you're right, but it isn't totally farfetched that they'd make a play for him.

It's pretty far-fetched.

[ArodEra]

This is what the ball-washing stooges at ESPN had as their headline: "Loney Powers Sox to Victory."

Loney powered the Sox into a 4-4 tie in the 5th inning with this blast:

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/p...33405&c_id=mlb

[effdamets]

ESPN.
Bite me.
(hate)

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

This is what the ball-washing stooges at ESPN had as their headline: "Loney Powers Sox to Victory."

Loney powered the Sox into a 4-4 tie in the 5th inning with this blast:

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/p...33405&c_id=mlb

Non-believer. You just don't realize that the "Epic Run" ™ has begun

[YankeePride1967]

Non-believer. You just don't realize that the "Epic Run" ™ has begun

Exactly. It's all part of the genius plan they have going on up there.

[TommyK8]

Given what's gone on the past few years in the FA market, I don't think you can just look at the Yankees and Red Sox -- most of the money's been spent by other teams recently.

Also, any agent worth his salt is going to get a premium out of the Red Sox this offseason. While the Nick Punto trade cleared up the clubhouse a bit, it's still not going to be a first choice for a lot of FAs (or at least, agents are still going to position it that way) -- particularly if Valentine is still around.

In order to get the premium, there still has to be a lot of teams in the fray competing for free agents. I'm not saying there won't be any, but many of the usual teams are not going to be spending like they have the last couple of years. I think the Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, and Tigers are four teams right there who are nearing their payroll and giant contract limits, and the Rangers are close by. I don't think the Marlins are going to jump back into the fray, either. The Yankees do not have great flexibility for the next few years. I just don't see a lot of big free agent teams out there ready to lavish huge contracts. The Red Sox have plenty of money to spend, but few players to spend it on. It will be interesting to see if they go after Josh Hamilton.

[ShaneTravis]

Looks like Ortiz is heading back to the DL. I wonder if this is the end for him in Boston.

I am leaning toward yes.

[pjfan]

I am leaning toward yes.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. On one hand, you have a guy playing on a team that is going nowhere. A guy who presumably doesn't want to blow out his achillies in the final 4-5 weeks of meaningless baseball.

On the other hand you have a guy who is going into free agency who might want to show teams that he can still play. He had a good season up until the point he was injured.

Papi will be in a tough spot. I would imagine the Sox may offer him more money then most teams, but he may be sick of this daily drama and want to get out. I wonder where he'll end up?

[b-ball-lunachick]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. On one hand, you have a guy playing on a team that is going nowhere. A guy who presumably doesn't want to blow out his achillies in the final 4-5 weeks of meaningless baseball.

On the other hand you have a guy who is going into free agency who might want to show teams that he can still play. He had a good season up until the point he was injured.

Papi will be in a tough spot. I would imagine the Sox may offer him more money then most teams, but he may be sick of this daily drama and want to get out. I wonder where he'll end up?

I think Ortiz will be back...I think the owners will be willing to give him more than they would have before this debacle to make sure there is a "beloved fan favorite" in their lineup with a big bat...Ortiz has a good AL East track record and the fans know they have money to spend...he may want to leave because he's a bit disgruntled on how much he got last time when they went on to pay a bunch of other players more...however I don't think there's that much of a market out there for an older DH especially since teams like the Yankees are rotating that spot...

as for this year, I don't blame him for not pushing himself to come back after they sold off all of those parts...I don't think that will have much to do with how he does in free agency because with rest he should be okay unless they think he's ready to blow it out...but I don't think that will have much of an effect - his numbers before that injury were really good...