The Red Sox Thread

[Yankees1962]

85-90 won't get them anywhere in the AL. There's enough talent that they should finish over .500, but I don't think it will be by much. To paraphrase a coach of another Boston team, Jonathan Papelbon isn't walking through that door, Curt Schilling isn't walking through that door, Manny Ramirez isn't walking through that door.

I'm not so sure about that as the AL East teams can beat each other up with the 2nd WC in play.

[cupcollector99]

Yankee fans can have glee over what has happened the last couple of days, but the Sox will get better and the Yankees have their own issues to deal with so our glee might be short-lived.

The Red Sox are a team that has no identity, no leadership and a clown for a manager and more than a few expensive contracts. To top it off, they have very little depth in the minors and ownership that seems to be making many of the same moves they threw at the Yankees for the past 10-15 years. "Too old, too expensive, too many free agents, trying to buy a pennant, yadda, yadda, yadda"
They now have a fanbase that demands a winner or at least expects to see some progress and short of a 2004 type miracle every week, they are headed in the same direction they were headed last September, minus the Angry Birds, fried chicken and beer.

In short, they have turned into everything they accused the Yankees and their fans of being...

[NerfBall55]

I still feel like the Sox are going to turn things around at some point. The two questions that have me worried are A. to what extent and B. will it be too late by then? I still think they can make a run, but I'm not convinced that they will. I was last year despite the fact that they got off to an even worse start.

I thought their reasonable expectations were 88-91, even with the DL group healthy, with everything having to go perfect for them to exceed that.

I just don't feel they have the horses this year, or the stable to provide relief.

[Yankees1962]

The Red Sox are a team that has no identity, no leadership and a clown for a manager and more than a few expensive contracts. To top it off, they have very little depth in the minors and ownership that seems to be making many of the same moves they threw at the Yankees for the past 10-15 years. "Too old, too expensive, too many free agents, trying to buy a pennant, yadda, yadda, yadda"
They now have a fanbase that demands a winner or at least expects to see some progress and short of a 2004 type miracle every week, they are headed in the same direction they were headed last September, minus the Angry Birds, fried chicken and beer.

In short, they have turned into everything they accused the Yankees and their fans of being...

Unlike you, I can only hope that's true.

[YankeePride1967]

I don't see this team being a playoff team. I think 85 wins would be a good year with the holes this team has.

[conkermaniac]

The added pressure to put him in the pen is caused by Cherrington's poor choices- Bailey and Melancon. You might chalk Bailey up to poor luck, but Melancon was a flat out dumb move

Melancon was a dumb move? People on this forum were up in arms that we traded him after his season last year. You had to figure he would at least be a league average reliever in the AL after dominating NL lineups.

[Yankees1962]

Melancon was a dumb move? People on this forum were up in arms that we traded him after his season last year. You had to figure he would at least be a league average reliever in the AL after dominating NL lineups.

Some of us had doubts about Melancon's ability to command his pitches. I didn't think Melancon translated well in the AL East.

[NelsonMuntz]

Some of us had doubts about Melancon's ability to command his pitches. I didn't think Melancon translated well in the AL East.

I very rarely, if ever, put much stock in the "can't handle the pressure of playing in NY/Boston" meme, but I'm starting to wonder if it might be the case with Melancon. Relief pitchers rarely face pitchers in the NL so the stuff should theoretically translate okay to the AL. For some reason he seems prone to meltdowns in high pressure situations. Maybe it causes him to overthrow.

[ieddyi]

I very rarely, if ever, put much stock in the "can't handle the pressure of playing in NY/Boston" meme, but I'm starting to wonder if it might be the case with Melancon. Relief pitchers rarely face pitchers in the NL so the stuff should theoretically translate okay to the AL. For some reason he seems prone to meltdowns in high pressure situations. Maybe it causes him to overthrow.

That was the rap on him. Great stuff in the minors and coughed it up while w/ the Yanks. I think it was the mental makeup questions that made him expendable

[Mr Coffee]

Game postponed.

[hardrain]

Game postponed.

ya..it's a shame...like to get them while they're down.

[ArodEra]

I don't feel sorry for him because he's a jackass, but I completely agree that he has become the scapegoat for problems that he didn't create. He didn't sign John Lackey. He didn't hand out a bad contract to Carl Crawford. He didn't sign Aviles to play SS. He didn't construct that bullpen and to the best of my knowledge, he was never a proponent of Bard to the rotation.

With that said, Valentine is a world class jerk so he'll get no sympathy from me. He did everything he could to instigate a war of words with the Yankees and their fans this offseason and now it's coming back to bite him. Sox to be you, Bobby.

Good post. I couldn't agree more.

[ArodEra]

this was on the screen at the beginning of BBT today:

That's great. Love the contrast between Bobby V and Swisher.

[ArodEra]

[bigwampum]

ya..it's a shame...like to get them while they're down.

Is it sad that I wanted this game postponed for one reason and one reason only? So that yesterday's magnificence would be the latest thing on Boston Sports Radio's mind when I drive to work tomorrow?

[YankeePride1967]

John Heyman just tweeted that Daniel Bard has been skipped over in the rotation and will work out of the bullpen.

[teknetic]

Wait, what? Does this mean he's not starting anymore? He's been rather effective even with the 5000 walks.

[pleasepassthesoup]

Is it sad that I wanted this game postponed for one reason and one reason only? So that yesterday's magnificence would be the latest thing on Boston Sports Radio's mind when I drive to work tomorrow?

You forget that the Bruins are playing an elimination game today, which either has the possibility to add to their misery, or to distract them.

[False1]

With as much crap as we give the FO of the team we root for, it's funny how many bad moves this club has made recently that were obviously questionable without Monday morning QB-ing. Lackey and Crawford. Chasing Tito out of town, and then unbelievably giving Valentine the gig. Letting Papelbon walk without any attempt to retain him. I'd also put Beckett's extension in that bucket.

Fun to look at the ERA+ of the staff over there sitting at 68.

Beckett - 88
Lester - 77
Buchholz - 50
Bard - 97
Aceves - 20
Padilla - 47
Morales - 73
Thomas - 61
Melancon - 10

And they just traded one of the 4 pitchers with better than league average results so far (Bowden) for Marlon Byrd. SSS and all, but damn.

[Dr. Gonzo]

lackey and crawford were not no brainers. They seemed more like red flags than anything. Lackey was just getting a worse, and the years and money for crawford were scary before he had a down year.

With as much crap as we give the FO of the team we root for, it's funny how many bad moves this club has made recently that seemed to be no brainers. Lackey and Crawford. Chasing Tito out of town, and then unbelievably giving Valentine the gig. Letting Papelbon walk without any attempt to retain him. I'd also put Beckett's extension in that bucket.

Fun to look at the ERA+ of the staff over there sitting at 68.

Beckett - 88
Lester - 77
Buchholz - 50
Bard - 97
Aceves - 20
Padilla - 47
Morales - 73
Thomas - 61
Melancon - 10

And they just traded one of the 4 pitchers with better than league average results so far (Bowden) for Marlon Byrd. SSS and all, but damn.

[b-ball-lunachick]

You forget that the Bruins are playing an elimination game today, which either has the possibility to add to their misery, or to distract them.

the overly dramatic CHB started his column today with:

Imagine . . . the Bruins and Red Sox both facing elimination on the same day.

btw - Happy Birthday to Terry Francona. Got a nice present with this weeks' debacle.

[False1]

lackey and crawford were not no brainers. They seemed more like red flags than anything. Lackey was just getting a worse, and the years and money for crawford were scary before he had a down year.

Ah, I should have been more clear. I meant no-brainers in terms of DUMB moves, not good ones. I'll go edit.

[JfromJersey]

Fried chicken and beer is not allowed in the clubhouse anymore, but Jack Daniels in the dugout is ok.
Pretty soon Bobby's gonna have to put on the fake mustache again, just to walk the streets of Beantown without being attacked.

[parkerstrong]

Most Sox fans would strongly disagree with me here, but no. I feel like the organization made a commitment to convert Bard back to a SP and they should stick with it. I know these moves don't always work (between Papelbon and Joba, we've both seen a lot of this in recent years), but Bard definitely has serious potential as a starter and needs time to get there. I'm willing to suffer through these losses in order to get there, even though other Sox fans might not be. I feel the same way about Doubront, whose overall stuff isn't as good, but is also a bit more polished.

Moving either guy back to the bullpen would be largely a panic move. Some would argue that it's a justified panic move, or that we need to make room in the rotation for Cook or Dice-K, but Buchholz looks like he might go on the DL sometime soon... there's definitely something wrong with him. If Clay goes to the DL, I'd rather have the rotation look like Lester/Becket/Cook/Bard/Doubront than any incarnation with Matsuzaka in it.

If I had things my way, the Sox would be trading for some BP help right now and not for a ................ing league average outfielder who is only going to be a marginal improvement at best over the backups we're plugging out there already. There's just a lot of panicking going on right now. The fans are panicking, the organization is panicking, and it's leading to a lot of bad ideas and at least one ................ty trade so far.

That was quick.....Bard is back in the bullpen.

https://twitter.com/#!/JonHeymanCBS/...72905779773441

Edit: Or should I say just for now.....but why do I feel this is the first step to putting him back in the bullpen? He holds the game tomorrow or Tuesday and then they can't take him out of the bullpen.

[ajra21]

The Yankees will not let Cano walk.

You're probably right but it wouldn't shock me.