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  1. #3076

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Tito was obligated to do the radio show that day as part of the whole "Lunch with Tito" promotional thing, the date was scheduled a long time ago.
    I know. But he knew when he went on that he was going to cry about the St Louis thing. He also knew Valentine was getting introduced that day. He should have begged off and did the show on some later date. I'm sure WEEI would have let him. In short, he knew what he was doing, as contrasted with September, 2011.

  2. #3077

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dgreco View Post
    I agree, I also find your post above interesting. I think it might show that he wore out his stay when the only guy who defended him was Pedroia, obviously Pedroia would because they were friends, but I think it says even more that not a single other play came out in his defense
    To defend Francona would be putting the blame on themselves. I think they figure why do that when he's leaving anyway?

    I think they are content to just let him shoulder the blame for the collapse and for the clubhouse atmosphere without taking any responsibility themselves.
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  3. #3078

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    I know. But he knew when he went on that he was going to cry about the St Louis thing. He also knew Valentine was getting introduced that day. He should have begged off and did the show on some later date. I'm sure WEEI would have let him. In short, he knew what he was doing, as contrasted with September, 2011.
    I think you're blowing it way out of proportion. Probably the last thing the guy wants to do is go on the show to begin with. However he stuck it out as was his obligation. But since it was the same day as Valentine's introduction, Francona was being classless or something?

    That seems like a stretch to me.
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  4. #3079
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Francona had, at most, 72 hour notice that the Sox were having the press conference at that time. He already had plane, hotel and whatever else accomodations booked at that point and it would have been a pain to change all of them. It seems kind of crazy to blame him for that.

  5. #3080

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    Thank you. Good post.

    Classy move, Tito, with that interview on the same day that Valentine was being introduced.


    Also, the predictable reply is that the Red Sox threw him under the bus. Veteran reporter Bob Hohler talked to his sources, which included a lot of people, not just management. We don't know if Pookie the Clubhouse Manager was the pills source any more than we know if it's Henry, Werner, Larry or Heidi Watney. Or Joe Blow on the Medical Staff. Or a gazillion other people with access.
    It's the predictable reply because it's also the logical one. The sox' FO has a history of this. Suggesting Francona should have not done the interview the same day as Valentine's press conference is a joke as well.

    This is business as usual for Boston.
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  6. #3081
    Yanksfanintoronto Yanksfanintoronto's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Tito has the right to defend himself. He would not have to speak about these issues if they were not leaked out in the first place. It is not classless to defend your honour, family and medical situation. This stigma of being on painkillers seems to have followed him and he should be concerned about how it affects his future employment. As far as the timing of this goes, I don't think it makes any difference to BV's press conference. If some people see it as payback on Tito's end then so be it.
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  7. #3082
    Attorney at Bird Law Bronson'sCornrows's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    You noticed they didn't try that crap with Theo. Probably because he has too much on them to fire back with.
    This doesn't make much sense unless one believes that Papelbon was also a genius who brilliantly compiled ammo against the Sox FO to use when he was let go. Let's be honest; Papelbon would have been extremely easy to smear when he left and not a soul would have complained much if it had happened. Nothing did.

    This whole "Red Sox smear campaign" meme is unbelievably overplayed. Most of these supposed smears dealt with ................ that fans and/or the media had already been talking about for months before the departure, i.e. Lowe's drinking and domestic problems and Nomar's general cantankery following the failed Ordonez swap. The Francona stuff was an obvious and extremely disappointing exception, in my hugely egotistical opinion. Whoever leaked that ................ should be as ashamed of themselves as the more self-aware Sox fans were of Francona's treatment in the press.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    I know. But he knew when he went on that he was going to cry about the St Louis thing. He also knew Valentine was getting introduced that day. He should have begged off and did the show on some later date. I'm sure WEEI would have let him. In short, he knew what he was doing, as contrasted with September, 2011.
    Enjoying the kool-aid? There was no logical reason for Tito not to do the interview as scheduled. Likewise, there was no logical reason for Tito not to talk about whatever the ................ he wanted to. None of what he said had anything to do with Valentine, nor would have any affect on Valentine, the team, nor fan perception of either. To be perfectly honest, I find Tito's interview and the timing thereof far more classy than I find your unnecessary, unwarranted, and unappreciated bitching thereof.

    With this type of post, you come across as the type who makes it a point to toe the company line and jump to the immediate defense of any and all Sox personnel. The fact of the matter is that the two most visible members of the Sox FO are incredibly unlikable and warrant plenty of legitimate criticism. Since this forum is designed for and almost entirely inhabited by Yankee fans, you'll not only see plenty of that, but a fair bit of unnecessary criticism to go along with it. If your way of dealing with that is to jump to immediate defense of the criticized, nobody here is going to respect you or even bother responding to any of your posts for any reason beyond ridicule. If you were here previously, you've already been in that spot and should have learned from it.

  8. #3083
    Mr. Know-It-All Casey at the Bat's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi Buffon View Post
    That's the Red Sox way - and it seems he's more angry at the reporter than the team? Either way it won't stop him from kissing their asses later on (like Nomar who despised that whole ownership group when he left) because he knows that being in the good graces of RS Nation is good for his wallet. You think Nomar would be on ESPN every night if he was pissing on John Henry?

    Poor Tito's a big boy - I think he'll make it through.
    It's also possible, that, you know, he enjoyed his time while he was there. It was clearly his most successful tenure as a manager, and until the very end, the organization seemed to support him completely. Just because it ended a little ugly doesn't mean he can't be appreciative about the rest of the 8 years he spent there.

  9. #3084
    Mr. Know-It-All Casey at the Bat's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    I know. But he knew when he went on that he was going to cry about the St Louis thing. He also knew Valentine was getting introduced that day. He should have begged off and did the show on some later date. I'm sure WEEI would have let him. In short, he knew what he was doing, as contrasted with September, 2011.
    Tito doesn't work for the Sox anymore. He shouldn't have to rearrange his schedule to accommodate the Sox interests. He doesn't owe them anything.

  10. #3085

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    I'm not saying that Tito shouldn't say what he thinks. I'm not saying Tito shouldn't defend himself. Or that he should tow a company line for a company who he no longer works for.

    I am saying that doing that interview on that particular day was in bad taste. Tito likes to present himself as a classy guy, and I believe he is a classy guy.

    I'd like to think that most classy guys would appreciate that there's a time and a place for that discussion, and the day when Valentine was being introduced was not it.

    It will be interesting to see who BV gets for bench coach and pitching coach. I'm hoping DeMarlo Hale is back on third. Hale is the best 3B coach I've seen in Boston with the exception of perhaps Mike Cubbage, who manned that spot flawlessly for a season and no one remembers doing it because he was so good at it.

  11. #3086

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson'sCornrows View Post
    Enjoying the kool-aid? There was no logical reason for Tito not to do the interview as scheduled. Likewise, there was no logical reason for Tito not to talk about whatever the ................ he wanted to. None of what he said had anything to do with Valentine, nor would have any affect on Valentine, the team, nor fan perception of either. To be perfectly honest, I find Tito's interview and the timing thereof far more classy than I find your unnecessary, unwarranted, and unappreciated bitching thereof.

    With this type of post, you come across as the type who makes it a point to toe the company line and jump to the immediate defense of any and all Sox personnel. The fact of the matter is that the two most visible members of the Sox FO are incredibly unlikable and warrant plenty of legitimate criticism. Since this forum is designed for and almost entirely inhabited by Yankee fans, you'll not only see plenty of that, but a fair bit of unnecessary criticism to go along with it. If your way of dealing with that is to jump to immediate defense of the criticized, nobody here is going to respect you or even bother responding to any of your posts for any reason beyond ridicule. If you were here previously, you've already been in that spot and should have learned from it.
    Your post contains the assumption that I'm defending anyone in particular. I know it's conventional wisdom that John Henry, Larry Lucchino and Tom Werner were the leaks. But, again, many people in the Sox organization and elsewhere could have known about Francona's use of painkillers, and none of us knows for sure that those owners were the source.

    Those guys don't get a free pass from me. The buck stops with them and they, along with Theo, should have realized that the August/September Sox were reeling and should have stepped in. They should not have been surprised by the fact that Tito had lost control of the team. And they should have provided him with more starting pitching at the trade deadline.

    And to your point about them being unlikable, I don't really share that given the success of the team during their tenure, but I do agree in spades that their media job on WEEI and elsewhere in the aftermath of the season has been pathetic.

  12. #3087
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Yet another alledged abuse scandal........

    http://news.yahoo.com/red-sox-clubho...141402490.html

    BOSTON (AP) — A man who had his "dream job" working in the Red Sox clubhouse as a teenager says that ended abruptly when the clubhouse manager sexually assaulted him.

    Charles Crawford is one of two Massachusetts men accusing Donald Fitzpatrick of abusing them in the early 1990s.

    Crawford said at a news conference Monday that Fitzpatrick assaulted him twice in the clubhouse at Fenway Park.

    The statute of limitations has expired for filing a lawsuit or seeking criminal charges against Fitzpatrick, who died in 2005. Both men are asking for $5 million settlements.

    In 2002, Fitzpatrick pleaded guilty in Florida to attempted sexual battery on a child under 12. The following year, the team settled a lawsuit with seven Florida men who said Fitzpatrick molested them during spring training beginning in the 1970s.

    In light of what has happened at Penn State and Syracuse, it makes one wonder - why now? It strikes me as "odd" that their alledged abuser has been deceased for 6 years. They can't get anything from Fitzpatrick, so go after the Sox - especially with the circus that has set up camp in that organization. If they really were assulted/abused by Fitzpatrick, I hope their lives have not been destroyed by it. If they were not......God help them.
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  13. #3088
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 35Knucklecurve View Post
    Yet another alledged abuse scandal........

    http://news.yahoo.com/red-sox-clubho...141402490.html


    In light of what has happened at Penn State and Syracuse, it makes one wonder - why now? It strikes me as "odd" that their alledged abuser has been deceased for 6 years. They can't get anything from Fitzpatrick, so go after the Sox - especially with the circus that has set up camp in that organization. If they really were assulted/abused by Fitzpatrick, I hope their lives have not been destroyed by it. If they were not......God help them.
    The first day we heard about Fine people said the same thing--why now?

  14. #3089
    Attorney at Bird Law Bronson'sCornrows's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    Your post contains the assumption that I'm defending anyone in particular. I know it's conventional wisdom that John Henry, Larry Lucchino and Tom Werner were the leaks. But, again, many people in the Sox organization and elsewhere could have known about Francona's use of painkillers, and none of us knows for sure that those owners were the source.
    There really wasn't any other reason to jump up in arms over the timing or content of Tito's interview for any other reason other than defending some imagined slight against someone, somewhere in the Red Sox organization and your original posts imply as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    Those guys don't get a free pass from me.
    Great. They shouldn't. Not from you, I, or any other Red Sox fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    The buck stops with them and they, along with Theo, should have realized that the August/September Sox were reeling and should have stepped in. They should not have been surprised by the fact that Tito had lost control of the team. And they should have provided him with more starting pitching at the trade deadline.
    Hopefully you aren't of the impression that the only valid criticism relates to their part in the stretch run collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    And to your point about them being unlikable, I don't really share that given the success of the team during their tenure, but I do agree in spades that their media job on WEEI and elsewhere in the aftermath of the season has been pathetic.
    While I have also enjoyed the short term results of this ownership group and overall front office, Lucchino comes off very much as an abrasive bully of a boss. Theo clearly didn't enjoy working for him and others probably don't and/or won't, either. It's very realistic that he could hinder our opportunities to select the best FO and managerial personnel for the team. Ditto for John Henry and his bizarre Teixeira issues, passive-aggressive bull................, and overall strangeness might also spook potential FAs. I have nothing bad to say about Werner; he's smart enough to keep himself out of the limelight and comes off as respectable when he is visible.

  15. #3090
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    I'm not saying that Tito shouldn't say what he thinks. I'm not saying Tito shouldn't defend himself. Or that he should tow a company line for a company who he no longer works for.

    I am saying that doing that interview on that particular day was in bad taste. Tito likes to present himself as a classy guy, and I believe he is a classy guy.

    I'd like to think that most classy guys would appreciate that there's a time and a place for that discussion, and the day when Valentine was being introduced was not it.

    It will be interesting to see who BV gets for bench coach and pitching coach. I'm hoping DeMarlo Hale is back on third. Hale is the best 3B coach I've seen in Boston with the exception of perhaps Mike Cubbage, who manned that spot flawlessly for a season and no one remembers doing it because he was so good at it.
    This could DEFINITELY go one way or the other, amirite?

  16. #3091

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson'sCornrows View Post

    1. There really wasn't any other reason to jump up in arms over the timing or content of Tito's interview for any other reason other than defending some imagined slight against someone, somewhere in the Red Sox organization and your original posts imply as much.

    2. Hopefully you aren't of the impression that the only valid criticism relates to their part in the stretch run collapse.

    3. While I have also enjoyed the short term results of this ownership group and overall front office, Lucchino comes off very much as an abrasive bully of a boss. Theo clearly didn't enjoy working for him and others probably don't and/or won't, either. It's very realistic that he could hinder our opportunities to select the best FO and managerial personnel for the team. Ditto for John Henry and his bizarre Teixeira issues, passive-aggressive bull................, and overall strangeness might also spook potential FAs. I have nothing bad to say about Werner; he's smart enough to keep himself out of the limelight and comes off as respectable when he is visible.
    1. I disagree. I think Tito's timing wasn't great. But I also think that in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal. Tito was a terrific manager who didn't perform well in the latter phase of his last season. So while I didn't like his timing, that doesn't obscure that he was the best manager that any of us have ever seen in a Boston uniform.

    2. Of course not. There are many things that the front office did in the last several years, most notably authorizing the signing of Lackey and Crawford, that subject them to legitimate criticism.

    3. I'm not nearly as fussed as you regarding the personality "bully/bizarre" issues. Money talks and free agents will keep coming as long as the Sox are paying. But I do agree that they royally screwed up the Teixeira negotiations, and that really hurt them during the 2009 season, in particular.

  17. #3092

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Francona to ESPN to complete the trade for Valentine:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-espn-francona
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  18. #3093
    Please, call me YFiB Yankee Fan in Boston's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Hiring a guy like Valentine and then not letting him do what he thinks is best seems like an interesting management strategy, no?

    New Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine wants to add Bill Buckner to his coaching staff and the former Boston first baseman wants the job, but the team's front office is resistant to the idea, a source close to Buckner said.

    So much for that. But here's my question: Where's the outrage?

    "Here we go again! The front office meddling in other people's business! Why do you hire Bobby Valentine if you don't trust his opinion? Why can't he hire who he wants?! Bobby V.'s a puppet! Boo, Lucchino… Boooo!"

    Seriously, though. What gives?

    Not that I'm particularly excited about the prospect of seeing Bill Buckner in the Sox dugout every day, BUT if you truly believe that Bobby V. has the team's best intentions in mind, and HE truly believes that Bill Buckner is the best man for the job, then why wouldn't you let him pull the trigger? Why the reported resistance?


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  19. #3094

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Fan in Boston View Post
    Hiring a guy like Valentine and then not letting him do what he thinks is best seems like an interesting management strategy, no?



    http://www.csnne.com/blog/standing-r...02&feedID=9961
    Yeah, odd. Bench coach is akin to foil, friend, trusted advisor. That's one spot where the manager should have very wide discretion unless he wants to hire an axe murderer or Grady Little.

  20. #3095

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldGarcia View Post
    Yeah, odd. Bench coach is akin to foil, friend, trusted advisor. That's one spot where the manager should have very wide discretion unless he wants to hire an axe murderer or Grady Little.
    What if he wanted to hire an axe murderer and Grady Little?

  21. #3096
    Good to the last drop CoyoteYankee's Avatar
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    What if he wanted to hire an axe murderer and Grady Little?
    What if Grady Little was an axe murderer and he hired him?
    2014 - New Team, New Result

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  22. #3097

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteYankee View Post
    What if Grady Little was an axe murderer and he hired him?
    I'm all for it. They should make this happen.

  23. #3098

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    YYHochi Yasuko Yanagita



    Sports Nippon reported today that highest bid for SS Nakajima will be Red Sox.


    YankeeSource Yankees
    Nakajima to Red Sox reports: Jumping the gun. I usually get all posting information from Lions directly. Nothing yet.

  24. #3099
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    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax Teller View Post
    YYHochi Yasuko Yanagita



    Sports Nippon reported today that highest bid for SS Nakajima will be Red Sox.


    YankeeSource Yankees
    Nakajima to Red Sox reports: Jumping the gun. I usually get all posting information from Lions directly. Nothing yet.
    He'll be a nice back up INF for the Sox .
    He had a ISO of .136 and an OPS of .787 in Japan whats not to like !


    Update : Edes confirms Red Sox did not bid on Nakajima :
    http://twitter.com/#!/GordonEdes/sta...87237221937153

  25. #3100

    Re: The Red Sox Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    What if he wanted to hire an axe murderer and Grady Little?
    I'd prefer just the axe murderer.

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