The Red Sox Thread

[b-ball-lunachick]

Actually it was during his post presser interview at WEEI. Here's the link:

http://audio.weei.com/a/47592169/new...e-big-show.htm

thanks.

Creepy in kinda like a Burt Reynolds.............post plastic surgery, way?

yes kind of like that, right? something is just off...

[b-ball-lunachick]

You mean the one where they use material from your butt to patch up your face? I thought for sure he'd already gotten that one. The inability to fully close your mouth is usually the tell-tale sign.

yes, I call it GMS (gaping mouth syndrome). he may be the worst case on record.

poor Phil Hughes

I think Phil has the underbite problem.

[4bronxbombers]

yes, I call it GMS (gaping mouth syndrome). he may be the worst case on record.



I think Phil has the underbite problem.

Bingo on both.

[Snatch Catch]

Hughes could catch rainwater if he went outside without an umbrella.

[Snatch Catch]

This is great - it appears very likely that the Red Sox attempts to do things in smarter ways than everyone else backfired tremendously in this case, and had a strong hand in sabotaging their season:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/b...ox#articleFull

According to a major league source, the Red Sox tried to convince Lackey to have Tommy John surgery as far back as April, but he could not be convinced. Given Lackey’s off-field issues with his wife’s battle with breast cancer and later their divorce proceedings, there were a couple of other times where the club unsuccessfully tried to steer Lackey into taking down time.

I love that the club is painted as the good guy here in urging him to have the elbow surgery.

[35Knucklecurve]

This is great - it appears very likely that the Red Sox attempts to do things in smarter ways than everyone else backfired tremendously in this case, and had a strong hand in sabotaging their season:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/b...ox#articleFull



I love that the club is painted as the good guy here in urging him to have the elbow surgery.

Given Lackey's implosion this past season, I would think the Sox could have taken him out of the rotation knowing that he was also dealing with some pretty draining off-the-field issues. They may have been able to swing some kind of deal in July to pick up a replacement from somewhere rather than knowingly let him go out there with a damaged arm and his mind on his wife's health and pending divorce. It's not an excuse to drink beer in the clubhouse, but it sure indicated some pretty self-destructive behavior which rubbed off on Lester and Beckett. This is turning into a real circus without a tent in Boston.

[ieddyi]

The icing on the cake will be when they get dreck for the Epstein "trade"

Olney had a blurb saying that Budlite will attempt to limit the value (read contract $$) for office personnel so not to expect much. That hasn't stopped the loyalists still clinging to the concept of huge sawx leverage in negotiations and the idea that Garza is still a realistic outome

[aeromac76]

The icing on the cake will be when they get dreck for the Epstein "trade"

Olney had a blurb saying that Budlite will attempt to limit the value (read contract $$) for office personnel so not to expect much. That hasn't stopped the loyalists still clinging to the concept of huge sawx leverage in negotiations and the idea that Garza is still a realistic outome

If it was up to Selig we'd have to give the Red Sox Betances, Banuelos and Montero so the CUBS could have Theo.

[Snatch Catch]

Given Lackey's implosion this past season, I would think the Sox could have taken him out of the rotation knowing that he was also dealing with some pretty draining off-the-field issues. They may have been able to swing some kind of deal in July to pick up a replacement from somewhere rather than knowingly let him go out there with a damaged arm and his mind on his wife's health and pending divorce. It's not an excuse to drink beer in the clubhouse, but it sure indicated some pretty self-destructive behavior which rubbed off on Lester and Beckett. This is turning into a real circus without a tent in Boston.

I was talking about the provision in his contract that locked in a 6th year at league minimum if he missed time due to the alleged elbow condition they found when signing him to the contract.

It was typical Sox stuff, trying to change the contractual landscape more in their favor, and it appears that it MAY have been at the root of this whole Lackey fiasco in 2011.

[Rice14]

I was talking about the provision in his contract that locked in a 6th year at league minimum if he missed time due to the alleged elbow condition they found when signing him to the contract.

It was typical Sox stuff, trying to change the contractual landscape more in their favor, and it appears that it MAY have been at the root of this whole Lackey fiasco in 2011.

I'm going to have to disagree here.

If the Sox really did want Lackey to do TJ at the beginning of the season, then I'm sure it's because they thought there was a problem. The Sox were built, actually expected, to win it all in 2011 and I don't think they were going to waste any potential asset in 2011 for the chance to save some money in three years. If they felt that Lackey could contribute in 2011, I don't think they'd have pushed TJ. In fact, if they thought Lackey could contribute, I'd wager that they would have asked him not to have the surgery.

Further, I don't think that Lackey's season long suckitude could be explained away by being upset that the Sox wanted him to have TJ. He would have to be incredibly weak minded to let that bother him to the extent he became the worst starting pitcher in MLB in 2011.

I don't give the Sox FO the benefit of the doubt much, but I doubt they would try to torpedo an entire season of a guy they hoped would be a frontline starter just to save some money in a few years.Especially not in a year that they had such high hopes.

[Rice14]

In other news, the Sox picked up the option on Scutaro next year.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

In other news, the Sox picked up the option on Scutaro next year.

I'm shocked. Reyes would have been such a great fit in Boston

[Snatch Catch]

I'm going to have to disagree here.

If the Sox really did want Lackey to do TJ at the beginning of the season, then I'm sure it's because they thought there was a problem. The Sox were built, actually expected, to win it all in 2011 and I don't think they were going to waste any potential asset in 2011 for the chance to save some money in three years. If they felt that Lackey could contribute in 2011, I don't think they'd have pushed TJ. In fact, if they thought Lackey could contribute, I'd wager that they would have asked him not to have the surgery.

Further, I don't think that Lackey's season long suckitude could be explained away by being upset that the Sox wanted him to have TJ. He would have to be incredibly weak minded to let that bother him to the extent he became the worst starting pitcher in MLB in 2011.

I don't give the Sox FO the benefit of the doubt much, but I doubt they would try to torpedo an entire season of a guy they hoped would be a frontline starter just to save some money in a few years.Especially not in a year that they had such high hopes.

You missed my point. I'm saying that I see it as a possibility that Lackey himself was fighting having TJS because of the clause in his contract. If the doctor says that he can play through it and there's a chance he can pull through and then do some rehab/prehab in the offseason, I think the 6th year at league minimum clause plays a huge factor in any decision.

[Rice14]

You missed my point. I'm saying that I see it as a possibility that Lackey himself was fighting having TJS because of the clause in his contract. If the doctor says that he can play through it and there's a chance he can pull through and then do some rehab/prehab in the offseason, I think the 6th year at league minimum clause plays a huge factor in any decision.

Aaah, I did not understand your point.

You may be right about that.

[ieddyi]

Any sawx fans concerned with the extra power Lucky has as a result of Theo leaving?

[blumj]

Any sawx fans concerned with the extra power Lucky has as a result of Theo leaving?

I honestly have no idea whether Lucky with more power is a good thing or a bad thing.

[Rice14]

I honestly have no idea whether Lucky with more power is a good thing or a bad thing.

Me either.

He seems like a first class A@#hole, but I don't know whether it will be better or worse having him more involved in decisions.

[GeraldGarcia]

Any sawx fans concerned with the extra power Lucky has as a result of Theo leaving?

Why would it be a bad thing?

Lucky became less involved after Theo returned from his Pearl Jam trip. Prior to that, the Sox won in 04 and after that, they won in 07 in large part because of a deal that Theo probably would not have done (Hanley for Beckett and Lowell).

Lucchino may not be warm and fuzzy, but the Red Sox seemed to do better when he was more involved with the baseball decisions.

[Yankees1962]

Why would it be a bad thing?

Lucky became less involved after Theo returned from his Pearl Jam trip. Prior to that, the Sox won in 04 and after that, they won in 07 in large part because of a deal that Theo probably would not have done (Hanley for Beckett and Lowell).

Lucchino may not be warm and fuzzy, but the Red Sox seemed to do better when he was more involved with the baseball decisions.

I don't know how you can make that assumption that Theo wouldn't have made that deal.

[GeraldGarcia]

I don't know how you can make that assumption that Theo wouldn't have made that deal.

I believe he has acknowledged that. Theo loved Hanley.

Regardless, it wasn't a trade that he made.

My point isn't to denigrate Theo. It's that more Larry isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Yankees1962]

I believe he has acknowledged that. Theo loved Hanley.

Regardless, it wasn't a trade that he made.

My point isn't to denigrate Theo. It's that more Larry isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Not necessarily unless you can prove it was Larry's ideas that made them better.

[ieddyi]

Why would it be a bad thing?

Lucky became less involved after Theo returned from his Pearl Jam trip. Prior to that, the Sox won in 04 and after that, they won in 07 in large part because of a deal that Theo probably would not have done (Hanley for Beckett and Lowell).

Lucchino may not be warm and fuzzy, but the Red Sox seemed to do better when he was more involved with the baseball decisions.

My assumption is that Lucky's expertise lies in business matters more so than player evaluation. Think of Levine of the Yanks as an equivalent.

While Theo was in power, he counterbalanced Lucky's sway in regard to player moves. Cherrington doesn't have the standing to do that. There is the possibility that Lucky will have greater influence over player choice and that e might be to err towards marquee value over production

Of course, we have no clue as to the power dynamic in the sawx FO. But, as a Yanks fan seeing the moves made by Hal and Levine last year ( Soriano ), I'd keep an eye on a business guy wielding more power in roster decisions

[NerfBall55]

I don't know how you can make that assumption that Theo wouldn't have made that deal.

Given his track record around prospect development, it's not a stretch at all. Plus, I don't think Epstein would have been as willing to take on what was perceived to be a shell of Mike Lowell at the time.

[Snatch Catch]

There is nothing concrete that I have seen, but there are very strong implications in the the detailed look at the Sox FO in "Feeding The Monster" on pages 387/388:

http://books.google.com/books?id=tHF...20deal&f=false

[GeraldGarcia]

There is nothing concrete that I have seen, but there are very strong implications in the the detailed look at the Sox FO in "Feeding The Monster" on pages 387/388:

http://books.google.com/books?id=tHF...20deal&f=false

Reading this, it's pretty clear to me that pegging LL as being on the "business side" only is erroneous. He's both. Randy Levine may or may not be pure business side but LL has the skill set to be both.