The Red Sox Thread

[Zimmers' Helmet]

Beckett's been out of shape in the past. I remember we had a lot of fun on this site thanks to a photo of him throwing with his beer gut exposed.

Wasn't that last year (Lackey's first season with Boston)?

[hellonewman]

I don't know how that will fly up here -- there's a lot of disenchantment with a bunch of the players.

Eh, the wounds are still fresh. Get a microphone-savvy drill sergeant who speaks fluent dirtdog and we'll see how the world looks in January.

(Wally Backman kind of fits the prototype - tough guy who'll talk an endless stream of smack about the Yankees - they'd eat it up in Boston. Don't know if his personal issues and relative lack of experience would sink him, though. The Mets, with whom he actually has roots, passed him over.)

the Sox have no leverage in those negotiation with the Cubs.

You wouldn't think so but whenever you get Selig and Lucchino in the same room my palms get a little sweaty. The Mariners got Randy Winn off a 120 OPS+ season for Lou Piniella. And that was just a field manager, not a guy who shapes organizations. I'm worried. (If the Red Sox get Starlin Castro out of this, I swear I'll ... no, no, mustn't give in to these paranoid thoughts.)

[hellonewman]

Wasn't that last year (Lackey's first season with Boston)?

It was 2008, the year after they won it.

[Yankees1962]

You wouldn't think so but whenever you get Selig and Lucchino in the same room my palms get a little sweaty. The Mariners got Randy Winn off a 120 OPS+ season for Lou Piniella. And that was just a field manager, not a guy who shapes organizations. I'm worried. (If the Red Sox get Starlin Castro out of this, I swear I'll ... no, no, mustn't give in to these paranoid thoughts.)

Baseball fans besides Red Sox ones would go nuts. Ain't happening!

[Yankeeah]

Imply that an outgoing manager has a drug problem after decision to leave and likely looking for work. Stay classy, ownership. From SOSH

http://twitter.com/#!/gehrig38/statu...66674197909505

[pleasepassthesoup]

You wouldn't think so but whenever you get Selig and Lucchino in the same room my palms get a little sweaty. The Mariners got Randy Winn off a 120 OPS+ season for Lou Piniella. And that was just a field manager, not a guy who shapes organizations. I'm worried. (If the Red Sox get Starlin Castro out of this, I swear I'll ... no, no, mustn't give in to these paranoid thoughts.)

Supposedly, the Sox prefer cash compensation to players in this deal.

[Axon]

Love the smear job on the entire team. The Red Sox ownership is officially a joke. At least the Boss embraced how ridiculous he was.

[ieddyi]

Supposedly, the Sox prefer cash compensation to players in this deal.

That's hard to figure. If true stupid move by the sawx

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

That's hard to figure. If true stupid move by the sawx

Unless they realized the Cubs weren't going to give them anything of substance. They probably should have tried to get the Cubs to take Lackey for signing Theo.

Still, that's the best outcome for Yankee fans.

[ieddyi]

Unless they realized the Cubs weren't going to give them anything of substance. They probably should have tried to get the Cubs to take Lackey for signing Theo.

Still, that's the best outcome for Yankee fans.

W/ prospects being a crapshoot, there's always the chance they pick up a winning lottery ticket. What difference will the $$ make?

[Yankee Tripper]

W/ prospects being a crapshoot, there's always the chance they pick up a winning lottery ticket. What difference will the $$ make?

Maybe they prefer to have an open 40 man roster spot instead of clogging one up with a marginal prospect.

[hellonewman]

Maybe they prefer to have an open 40 man roster spot instead of clogging one up with a marginal prospect.

Do we know that's all they can get though? Obviously my Castro thing was meant as Theater of the Absurd but as mentioned, the Mariners got a then-pretty-productive Randy Winn for Piniella, and if Shank is to be believed the A's asking price during the Beane-to-Boston negotiations in 2002 was Kevin Youkilis.

And the "leverage" thing some have brought up cuts both ways. Sure it would be awkward for the Sox to pull Epstein back at this point but the Cubs are under some pressure, too - they just got the most long-suffering fan base in sports all jazzed up that they have landed the Mighty Theo, Slayer of Curses. Think they want to have to go back to them and say, "Yeah, well, in the end we can't have Theo after all because we wouldn't give up a prospect most of you have never heard of. Looks like Joe Dildock will be our GM for the next several years. Ummm ... want to buy some season tickets?"

I think the Red Sox may actually hold a stronger hand here than some realize. I'll be thrilled if they fold it for cash.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Do we know that's all they can get though? Obviously my Castro thing was meant as Theater of the Absurd but as mentioned, the Mariners got a then-pretty-productive Randy Winn for Piniella, and if Shank is to be believed the A's asking price during the Beane-to-Boston negotiations in 2002 was Kevin Youkilis.

And the "leverage" thing some have brought up cuts both ways. Sure it would be awkward for the Sox to pull Epstein back at this point but the Cubs are under some pressure, too - they just got the most long-suffering fan base in sports all jazzed up that they have landed the Mighty Theo, Slayer of Curses. Think they want to have to go back to them and say, "Yeah, well, in the end we can't have Theo after all because we wouldn't give up a prospect most of you have never heard of. Looks like Joe Dildock will be our GM for the next several years. Ummm ... want to buy some season tickets?"

I think the Red Sox may actually hold a stronger hand here than some realize. I'll be thrilled if they fold it for cash.

Sure, but the Cubs have other options -- the Sox really don't. If Theo comes back, it's clear that one of the teams leaders doesn't want to be there -- how can they have that as they navigate through this offseason and try to convince the team and players that they should care? Theo in a lameduck year with his eyes on other teams would be much worse for the Sox than not signing him would be to the Cubs.

[hellonewman]

Not sure what other options the Cubs have that would pacify their fans after getting this close on Theo, other than maybe Cashman, who is probably pie-in-the-sky at this point.

The Sox are admittedly in a sticky wicket about what to do with Theo, unless they somehow patched things up like after the gorilla-suit interregnum.

[Yankee Tripper]

Do we know that's all they can get though?

No clue what they can get.

Just my wild guess though, Selig isn't going to bend over backward to help a team that has had the 2nd or 3rd hghest payroll for like 5 years running like he might for a "small market team" if the Cubs were say trying to poach the Rays GM.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Not sure what other options the Cubs have that would pacify their fans after getting this close on Theo, other than maybe Cashman, who is probably pie-in-the-sky at this point.

The Sox are admittedly in a sticky wicket about what to do with Theo, unless they somehow patched things up like after the gorilla-suit interregnum.

I don't think Cubs fans are nearly as up in arms about their team right now as the Red Sox fans are.

[hellonewman]

I don't think Cubs fans are nearly as up in arms about their team right now as the Red Sox fans are.

No but announcing you just landed Theo raises hopes. Best not to dash them.

[Carbon Fiber]

I don't think Cubs fans are nearly as up in arms about their team right now as the Red Sox fans are.

Cubs fans don't get up in arms about much --- you see that book Scorecasting (something like that)...anyway, it showed that the Cubs were the only MLB team thats attendance isn't most directly related to w/l record... for the Cubs, their attendance is most directly correlated with the price of beer!

As a RS fan, I am extremely disappointed by this whole escapade. I wish whoever the team source was would get canned. The private stuff about Tito is unconscionable.

[Yankee Tripper]

No but announcing you just landed Theo raises hopes. Best not to dash them.

Cub fans are used to dashed hopes.

[teknetic]

Cubs fans don't get up in arms about much --- you see that book Scorecasting (something like that)...anyway, it showed that the Cubs were the only MLB team thats attendance isn't most directly related to w/l record... for the Cubs, their attendance is most directly correlated with the price of beer!

As a RS fan, I am extremely disappointed by this whole escapade. I wish whoever the team source was would get canned. The private stuff about Tito is unconscionable.

Is there any doubt that it's LL?

[Yankees1962]

Cubs fans don't get up in arms about much --- you see that book Scorecasting (something like that)...anyway, it showed that the Cubs were the only MLB team thats attendance isn't most directly related to w/l record... for the Cubs, their attendance is most directly correlated with the price of beer!

As a RS fan, I am extremely disappointed by this whole escapade. I wish whoever the team source was would get canned. The private stuff about Tito is unconscionable.

Then you'll have to fire ownership because it's my opinion they're the ones that they either directly or indirectly leaked this information.

[hellonewman]

Cub fans are used to dashed hopes.

Clever but their attendance has been edging down 3 straight years now (TV ratings too I believe). In a down economy this might not be a good time to kick them in the teeth again.

[Carbon Fiber]

Then you'll have to fire ownership because it's my opinion they're the ones that they either directly or indirectly leaked this information.

I agree with teknetic that it is most likely LL (or, my slightly different version is that it's people around LL who know that he is OK with this and this is the backstabbing environment that he has fostered)... I wish the ownership group would make him step aside -- which even though LL is part of the ownership group, my guess is that the group as a whole still easily has the power to make him step down. Wishful thinking I know.

[Meecham4ever]

From Gordon Edes, one of Bostons' own...

Tito victim of latest Sox smear campaign

Ex-manager learning the hard way that no one gets out of Boston with reputation intact

BOSTON -- Terry Francona is paying a dear price for deviating, however briefly, from the script.


He was supposed to say the decision to end his eight-year run as Red Sox manager was all his, and leave it at that. Instead, he said that he wasn't sure ownership had his back, suggesting that the reason he walked out the door was because it was held wide open for him.
Well, that obviously didn't sit well with some people in the highest reaches of Sox management, for now we are told in Wednesday's editions of the Boston Globe that not only did the Red Sox collapse in September, but that Francona's troubled marriage and his use of pain medication may have been contributing factors.





This is how it's done, Tito, Boston-style. No one ever escapes clean, regardless of what you might have accomplished here. (See Garciaparra, Nomar, 2004.)

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/...smear-campaign

[Hildy910]

Gammons weighed in as being 'sickened' by events as well. Quite a lot of media pushback. Good on Edes et al.