The Red Sox Thread

[jcarey]

Yeah, since his lat is bad enough that they've proactively decided to skip a start a few days before it is scheduled it's a giant leap of faith that it is poor judgment to go golfing. Although, perhaps it's miniature golf and therefore it is wild, reckless speculation on my part. I'm sure Pedroia got the 12 and under discount if he went along.

This doesn't require medical expertise, but rather common sense. Whether the risk is real or perceived (and from experience I can tell you I'd lean towards the former), it's just a dumb move from a guy that's made a string of them.

I think any golf with Pedroia is mini golf.

[snapple]

I'm only 22. I feel pretty good knowing that reference.

[1970cs]

What a tool. He could have been an icon in that town given his playoff successes. Between last year and now golfing before a known skipped start due to an injury that could potentially even get worse via golfing... does anyone in Boston support this guy anymore?

This poll was from yesterday

What should the Red Sox do with Josh Beckett?
Put him on the trading block 72.9%


Keep him 27.1%



Total Votes: 19,001

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...trade_him?pg=7

[b-ball-lunachick]

"Golf is as much a part of the pitching culture as a curve ball, I know that for sure.

Valentine stressed that Beckett wasn't shut down with an injury after his last start.

"When we decided for Josh not to make his start, it wasn't because he was injured," Valentine said. "It was a precautionary situation because his his lat was a little tight,"

Valentine said he needed to get specifics before he could comment on the situation."

Oops, too late Bobby- like everything you said before that wasn't "comment" ?

Every time he talks it's like one of those " how many asinine things can you find in his statements "

on this one thing, I feel for Valentine a little because Beckett put him in this position...and then he says he didn't talk to him..did he try to contact him and Beckett didn't answer his phone? he flew back to Boston already and didn't face the media...what a loser...

also, according to this blog, take it for what it's worth but someone was apparently on the radio saying he didn't want to do his conditioning either:

Gary Tanguay on with Felger now says Beckett during the last home stand refused to do the work he was supposed to with the rest of the pitchers, said he didn't feel like it, refused to listen to the strength coach. Went into the clubhouse instead.

http://joyofsox.blogspot.com/

[GiambiRocks]

on this one thing, I feel for Valentine a little because Beckett put him in this position...and then he says he didn't talk to him..did he try to contact him and Beckett didn't answer his phone? he flew back to Boston already and didn't face the media...what a loser...

also, according to this blog, take it for what it's worth but someone was apparently on the radio saying he didn't want to do his conditioning either:



http://joyofsox.blogspot.com/

I love this!

[ieddyi]

on this one thing, I feel for Valentine a little because Beckett put him in this position...and then he says he didn't talk to him..did he try to contact him and Beckett didn't answer his phone? he flew back to Boston already and didn't face the media...what a loser...

also, according to this blog, take it for what it's worth but someone was apparently on the radio saying he didn't want to do his conditioning either:



http://joyofsox.blogspot.com/

Joshie being Joshie........

[Bronson'sCornrows]

I really ................ing hate Bobby Valentine. Why do you bunt? Why the ................ do you bunt against a guy who can't throw a goddamn strike with two on and nobody out? If Byrd doesn't try the bunt, he takes the free base on the HBP. If he doesn't keep trying to bunt after that, he probably takes a walk.

This is easily the most frustrating game I've seen all season, including the marathon extra inning let downs and yesterday's come from ahead loss. There were so many different things that conspired to make this loss happen; a ................ty, inconsistent strike zone, horrible Sox defense allowing 3 unearned runs to score, stupid in game managerial decisions... it's almost like there's some weird conspiracy between the players, umpires, and Bobby V to throw away a series we should have ................ing swept. Maybe I need a break from this .................

[Dave Visbeck]

This start is reminding me of the 1905 season - and that ain't good!

[hellonewman]

This start is reminding me of the 1905 season - and that ain't good!

Eh, 78-74, 4th place. Not terrible and certainly better than 1906!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_Bo...ericans_season

[1970cs]

on this one thing, I feel for Valentine a little because Beckett put him in this position...and then he says he didn't talk to him..did he try to contact him and Beckett didn't answer his phone? he flew back to Boston already and didn't face the media...what a loser...

also, according to this blog, take it for what it's worth but someone was apparently on the radio saying he didn't want to do his conditioning either:



http://joyofsox.blogspot.com/

Tanguay and Felger are mostly Patriots guys, but it makes sense that none of the clubhouse writers would wan't to touch this and lose access, so it could have been farmed out.

[GordonGecko]

Well as bad as the Yankees suck this year compared to expectations, it's always good comfort to know that the Red Sox suck much, much more

[just-blaze]

I really ................ing hate Bobby Valentine. Why do you bunt? Why the ................ do you bunt against a guy who can't throw a goddamn strike with two on and nobody out? If Byrd doesn't try the bunt, he takes the free base on the HBP. If he doesn't keep trying to bunt after that, he probably takes a walk.

This is easily the most frustrating game I've seen all season, including the marathon extra inning let downs and yesterday's come from ahead loss. There were so many different things that conspired to make this loss happen; a ................ty, inconsistent strike zone, horrible Sox defense allowing 3 unearned runs to score, stupid in game managerial decisions... it's almost like there's some weird conspiracy between the players, umpires, and Bobby V to throw away a series we should have ................ing swept. Maybe I need a break from this .................

Lol. I was thinking the same thing. You can't assume the second part, but bunting was extremely stupid there.

Keep up the good work Bobby.

Edit: I do say it half heartedly as I lost money on the Sox, AGAIN. But at some point, you guys need to isolate for the suck virus as it is spreading to your whole roster.

[Mr Coffee]

Maybe I need a break from this .................

[sweet_lou_14]

Not sure if it's been posted already, but I was taken aback by this article about Gonzalez from the Globe:
http://articles.boston.com/2012-05-0...tein-franchise

It's just one writer, but from the small amount of Boston sports radio I hear, it does seem like this town is starting to sharpen the knives for this guy. When the article says "Adrian Gonzalez is signed through 2018. There's no way he's here through then," I can't bring myself to disagree.

[pjfan]

Never!!

I think I'm moving to Natstown.

[35Knucklecurve]

Gonzalez is a heck of a ballplayer, and perhaps he'll even rebound from one of the worst starts of his career.

But he doesn't belong here.

All too often the front OF, in its all out effort to sign a top-tier free agent, will overlook the player's personality and the potential for a disaster. Although he wasn't what you'd consider a highly sought player, Kevin Brown was doomed to fail in NY before he ever put the pinstripes on. He had a history of having more issues than a magazine. Add NY to that and the fuse is lit. Carl Pavano had no intention of every playing another game after he got a taste of what it's like to play for the Yankees - at least, that's my opinion. To some degree, the same was true with Randy Johnson. At least RJ showed up and gave it his best shot. He underestimated the media scrutiny and daily invasion of privacy, for lack of a better term. Now it appears the Sox are going down that road with Gonzalez and you can add Lackey to that list. While A-Gon may not have had any "red flags", it's beginning to look like Boston may be too much for him to handle.

[Yankees1962]

All too often the front OF, in its all out effort to sign a top-tier free agent, will overlook the player's personality and the potential for a disaster. Although he wasn't what you'd consider a highly sought player, Kevin Brown was doomed to fail in NY before he ever put the pinstripes on. He had a history of having more issues than a magazine. Add NY to that and the fuse is lit. Carl Pavano had no intention of every playing another game after he got a taste of what it's like to play for the Yankees - at least, that's my opinion. To some degree, the same was true with Randy Johnson. At least RJ showed up and gave it his best shot. He underestimated the media scrutiny and daily invasion of privacy, for lack of a better term. Now it appears the Sox are going down that road with Gonzalez and you can add Lackey to that list. While A-Gon may not have had any "red flags", it's beginning to look like Boston may be too much for him to handle.

Brown was too old with that bad back when he came here and the same applies to Johnson.

[RenoHightower]

Hasn't it been confirmed that he has some kind of lat injury? Hence, your saying "if it's actually injured at all" is moot.

Common sense would dictate that swinging a golf club or hitting a few balls at a batting range isn't exactly the ideal remedy for a lat injury/pull/stiffness. False is commenting on what's already been made public and offered reasonable commentary based on that, so he's hardly practicing any "dangerous" speculating.

Actually, Valentine specifically said that his lat wasn't injured, just "stiff."

Common sense doesn't apply here. I don't know anything about orthopedic medicine, and neither do most of the members of this site. Blasting a guy because it seems to the layman like he's using poor judgment is silly. Again, there are a lot of reasons to criticize Beckett. What we, as uninformed observers, think seems like a bad idea doesn't amount to much.

Now, I'm not saying that Beckett is a great guy and that this is definitely completely harmless, I just take issue with people extending beyond the information in the story. Saying things like he's risking aggravating the injury is inappropriate, because we don't know that to be the case.

[RenoHightower]

I really hope that this Adrian Gonzalez thing continues to go the way it's going. The guy is an elite player, and the fans are in the process of running him right out of town. I don't buy for a second that he can't handle Boston; he was absolutely sensational last year. He's off to a rough start this year, but random variation probably accounts for most of that.

[Mr Coffee]

Actually, Valentine specifically said that his lat wasn't injured, just "stiff."

Common sense doesn't apply here. I don't know anything about orthopedic medicine, and neither do most of the members of this site. Blasting a guy because it seems to the layman like he's using poor judgment is silly. Again, there are a lot of reasons to criticize Beckett. What we, as uninformed observers, think seems like a bad idea doesn't amount to much.

Now, I'm not saying that Beckett is a great guy and that this is definitely completely harmless, I just take issue with people extending beyond the information in the story. Saying things like he's risking aggravating the injury is inappropriate, because we don't know that to be the case.

He's your guy, so if you're ok with that, fine-- I really don't care if he ever pitches again.

That said, something isn't right. On Wednesday, Bobby V says Beckett will miss Saturday's start. So either it was serious enough to give bump him three days later, or it was minor, and skipping the start was precautionary. EITHER WAY, golfing the next day- Thursday-- looks irresponsible at best. Couple this with the story that he refused to or just didn't work out previous to this and it looks like something is going on there.

[Mr Coffee]

I really hope that this Adrian Gonzalez thing continues to go the way it's going. The guy is an elite player, and the fans are in the process of running him right out of town. I don't buy for a second that he can't handle Boston; he was absolutely sensational last year. He's off to a rough start this year, but random variation probably accounts for most of that.

It's God's will.

[False1]

Actually, Valentine specifically said that his lat wasn't injured, just "stiff."

Common sense doesn't apply here. I don't know anything about orthopedic medicine, and neither do most of the members of this site. Blasting a guy because it seems to the layman like he's using poor judgment is silly. Again, there are a lot of reasons to criticize Beckett. What we, as uninformed observers, think seems like a bad idea doesn't amount to much.

Now, I'm not saying that Beckett is a great guy and that this is definitely completely harmless, I just take issue with people extending beyond the information in the story. Saying things like he's risking aggravating the injury is inappropriate, because we don't know that to be the case.

"Stiff" enough that several days prior to a start he's being paid $.5MM to make they proactively decide to skip him? Muscles get stiff all the time. I'm sure even with highly conditioned athletes that stretch properly they stiffen up from time to time and play through it. Here's a guy that shows up to play roughly 30 times a year, gets five days between appearances, is paid $17MM, is coming off a season where he was widely considered a goat by his respective fan base, has pitched below expectations this year, and was shelved for a start while the team and the rotation are struggling... You're probably right, he's fine.

Once again, you don't need a phd to know that swinging a golf club is not the proper way to rest a lat muscle. You have access to google I presume? Or certainly you've seen a golf swing before? If you were resting a stiff ankle, you wouldn't go skiing would you?

And finally, even if you blindly accept that there was positively no way golfing could prevent his "stiff" lat from resting, it was stupid regardless just given the optics. It's like calling out sick to work and then showing up to happy hour that night. For a dude with his recent set of circumstances, it's incredibly dumb and I'm sure many fans were turned off by it.

[RenoHightower]

He's your guy, so if you're ok with that, fine-- I really don't care if he ever pitches again.

Whoa there, hoss. Josh Beckett is a piece of human refuse, and if he got hit by a bus tomorrow and was crippled and would never be able to pitch again, I'd spend the next 4-5 hours laughing uncontrollably. I loathe him and wish him nothing but the worst. I hate almost every member of the Red Sox on principle, but Beckett is a special kind of ass, and he warrants special disdain reserved for elite jerks like Youkilis, Schilling, Papelbon, and Pedroia.

My point is simply that I don't like when people blast anyone for something they're assuming to be true. Yes, it doesn't look good that Beckett was golfing. My point is that I don't know that it really matters, and I don't like criticizing people when I don't know what I'm talking about.

That said, something isn't right. On Wednesday, Bobby V says Beckett will miss Saturday's start. So either it was serious enough to give bump him three days later, or it was minor, and skipping the start was precautionary. EITHER WAY, golfing the next day- Thursday-- looks irresponsible at best. Couple this with the story that he refused to or just didn't work out previous to this and it looks like something is going on there.

You may be right, but I guess I just approach these things a little differently.

[RenoHightower]

"Stiff" enough that several days prior to a start he's being paid $.5MM to make they proactively decide to skip him? Muscles get stiff all the time. I'm sure even with highly conditioned athletes that stretch properly they stiffen up from time to time and play through it. Here's a guy that shows up to play roughly 30 times a year, gets five days between appearances, is paid $17MM, is coming off a season where he was widely considered a goat by his respective fan base, has pitched below expectations this year, and was shelved for a start while the team and the rotation are struggling... You're probably right, he's fine.

Once again, you don't need a phd to know that swinging a golf club is not the proper way to rest a lat muscle. You have access to google I presume? Or certainly you've seen a golf swing before? If you were resting a stiff ankle, you wouldn't go skiing would you?

And finally, even if you blindly accept that there was positively no way golfing could prevent his "stiff" lat from resting, it was stupid regardless just given the optics. It's like calling out sick to work and then showing up to happy hour that night. For a dude with his recent set of circumstances, it's incredibly dumb and I'm sure many fans were turned off by it.

I'm not assuming or accepting anything. That's the whole point. I'm specifically avoiding making any assumptions. I also don't care what fans think; most fans are stupid.

[False1]

Whoa there, hoss. Josh Beckett is a piece of human refuse, and if he got hit by a bus tomorrow and was crippled and would never be able to pitch again, I'd spend the next 4-5 hours laughing uncontrollably.

you're assuming that if he got hit by a bus and crippled that he'd never be able to pitch again. I think we need a phd to weigh in on that leap of faith.