The Red Sox Thread

[aeromac76]

That would be tonight.

Actually there is a huge nor'easter storm which will probably rain out tonight's game.

What I find funny is that if you go look at all the criticism, Bobby V aside, it is all about Theo and Tito.

The problem there is simple, no one wants to blame the people whose fault it is.
We blame a new manager, we blame guys who have left (somehow those currently IN the Sox organization can never do anything wrong, they are only wrong after the leave Boston).

Bobby V's mistake was not criticizing Youk, it was making it public. But it was also apologizing.
If I were the manager when Pedroia responded by saying "that's not the way we do things here" I'd have told him, "The way you do things here has not bought the team with the second most resources in baseball a single playoff game win since 2008, and the way you do things here bought you an epic collapse almost never seen before. The way you do things here is not working, and that is why I am here. If it were working I wouldn't be here. So STFU and play ball, the way we do things here is now MY way."

[NelsonMuntz]

I feel bad for Bobby V only because he's getting blamed for stuff that's largely out of his control. It's not his fault that there's no one in his bullpen that can get a couple of outs.

I don't feel sorry for him because he's a jackass, but I completely agree that he has become the scapegoat for problems that he didn't create. He didn't sign John Lackey. He didn't hand out a bad contract to Carl Crawford. He didn't sign Aviles to play SS. He didn't construct that bullpen and to the best of my knowledge, he was never a proponent of Bard to the rotation.

With that said, Valentine is a world class jerk so he'll get no sympathy from me. He did everything he could to instigate a war of words with the Yankees and their fans this offseason and now it's coming back to bite him. Sox to be you, Bobby.

[teknetic]

11-30 since September 1st. Yowzas.

Someone on twitter labeled yesterday as "The Valentine's Day Massacre." Awesome.

[parkerstrong]

I don't feel sorry for him because he's a jackass, but I completely agree that he has become the scapegoat for problems that he didn't create. He didn't sign John Lackey. He didn't hand out a bad contract to Carl Crawford. He didn't sign Aviles to play SS. He didn't construct that bullpen and to the best of my knowledge, he was never a proponent of Bard to the rotation.

With that said, Valentine is a world class jerk so he'll get no sympathy from me. He did everything he could to instigate a war of words with the Yankees and their fans this offseason and now it's coming back to bite him. Sox to be you, Bobby.

In fact there was a disagreement in spring training.....Bobby V wanted Bard in the bullpen (I'm sure he saw that his bullpen sucked) and management wanted Bard in the starting rotation. I know many people say a starter is more important that a reliever, but if your bullpen always gives up runs when the starter comes out, a good start (like yesterday) gets wasted. All of my Red Sox fans are telling me that they need Bard in the bullpen pronto. Should be an interesting week and see if Boston tries to fix the pen, or just lets the season get away from them.

[b-ball-lunachick]

this was on the screen at the beginning of BBT today:

[b-ball-lunachick]

More on Bobby V the loose cannon. Please extend his contract:





http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1065385

that Aviles situation is interesting...i wonder who leaked that and when. i also wonder how much of that had to do with Valentine pushing for Iglesias.

off topic, when Aviles fell down yesterday, i was giggling for about 4 minutes straight. guy has a bit of an attitude so it made it that much better.

[4bronxbombers]

this was on the screen at the beginning of BBT today:

Love the pic of Swish in the bottom right hand corner.

And yes, I was giggling too. I think I'll google the fall just to chuckle again. Hell, I might even resurrect Pablo chasing the cake and taking a spill.

[Bronson'sCornrows]

Help is on the way with Marlon Byrd.

I was so ................ing pissed the second I heard this. I got the news right before the Sox lost that swank 9-1 lead and I was far more upset over this. I'm absolutely confident that Bowden will be a solid back of the rotation guy and has the potential to be a 2-3 guy if he keeps refining his ................. That's worth waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more to me than a league average outfielder who is off to a worse start than the entire Red Sox team, especially given how the Sox pitching has been so far this season.

Here's what I'm reading out of this- management is far more concerned with our OF issues than the horrible, god awful, atrocious pitching issues so far. In fact, they're so much more concerned that they're going to sacrifice what little pitching depth we have in order to acquire a LEAGUE AVERAGE ................ing OF. I can put up with the losing no problem, but it's pretty hard to swallow incredibly stupid moves like this.

[Yankees1962]

Yankee fans can have glee over what has happened the last couple of days, but the Sox will get better and the Yankees have their own issues to deal with so our glee might be short-lived.

[ieddyi]

In fact there was a disagreement in spring training.....Bobby V wanted Bard in the bullpen (I'm sure he saw that his bullpen sucked) and management wanted Bard in the starting rotation. I know many people say a starter is more important that a reliever, but if your bullpen always gives up runs when the starter comes out, a good start (like yesterday) gets wasted. All of my Red Sox fans are telling me that they need Bard in the bullpen pronto. Should be an interesting week and see if Boston tries to fix the pen, or just lets the season get away from them.

But Bard to the pen creates another hole in the starting rotation- with no chance of their filling it easily

Bard seems to have transition well so far, and we know starting pitching is more valuable than relievers, so why change him now. Especially seeing as how the rest of the team was constructed

They can start him till he runs up innings and have him relieve the end part of the year if they're contending. DiceK is starting his minors rehab, so he'll have to be w/ the big club w/in 30 days

The added pressure to put him in the pen is caused by Cherrington's poor choices- Bailey and Melancon. You might chalk Bailey up to poor luck, but Melancon was a flat out dumb move

[parkerstrong]

I was so ................ing pissed the second I heard this. I got the news right before the Sox lost that swank 9-1 lead and I was far more upset over this. I'm absolutely confident that Bowden will be a solid back of the rotation guy and has the potential to be a 2-3 guy if he keeps refining his ................. That's worth waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more to me than a league average outfielder who is off to a worse start than the entire Red Sox team, especially given how the Sox pitching has been so far this season.

Here's what I'm reading out of this- management is far more concerned with our OF issues than the horrible, god awful, atrocious pitching issues so far. In fact, they're so much more concerned that they're going to sacrifice what little pitching depth we have in order to acquire a LEAGUE AVERAGE ................ing OF. I can put up with the losing no problem, but it's pretty hard to swallow incredibly stupid moves like this.

All things considered, they already designated Bowden for assignment so they were going to lose him anyways. He would have been claimed by someone, so they tried to get something for him. That said, I agree that Byrd isnt the answer at all.

Do you believe they should pull Bard from the rotation? With Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz probably locked into spots, you only have 2 more spots available. With Dice-K coming back in a few weeks, I don't think it is far fetched to see Bard moved back to the bullpen....I'm just not sure the Red Sox will do it since they want to maximize Bard's value and keep him a starter.

[ieddyi]

Yankee fans can have glee over what has happened the last couple of days, but the Sox will get better and the Yankees have their own issues to deal with so our glee might be short-lived.

That's the way I felt last year when they got off to that poor start, but this year is different. This is a team w/ no depth and glaring holes. The pieces were there last year for them to make a run- this year those pieces have regressed or aren't there anymore

[parkerstrong]

But Bard to the pen creates another hole in the starting rotation- with no chance of their filling it easily

Bard seems to have transition well so far, and we know starting pitching is more valuable than relievers, so why change him now. Especially seeing as how the rest of the team was constructed

They can start him till he runs up innings and have him relieve the end part of the year if they're contending. DiceK is starting his minors rehab, so he'll have to be w/ the big club w/in 30 days

The added pressure to put him in the pen is caused by Cherrington's poor choices- Bailey and Melancon. You might chalk Bailey up to poor luck, but Melancon was a flat out dumb move

Thats the decision they will have to make-move Bard for the sake of the team this year or leave the bullpen to be horrible with Bard developing as a starter. We'll see what they do

[ajra21]

Yankee fans can have glee over what has happened the last couple of days, but the Sox will get better and the Yankees have their own issues to deal with so our glee might be short-lived.

Sure. We're gonna have to live not signing Swish this off season and maybe letting Cano walk to get under the luxury tax. What makes me smile about the current Sox situation however, is the feeling they are getting a little bit of karma. For a long time they've been the darlings of baseball but I've always felt that situation was in accurate and slightly undeserved. Getting rid of theo and Tito was a mistake and they did it. Bobby V was one of the worst choices you could have considered as manager and they did it. Sometimes, you reap what you sow.

[Yankees1962]

That's the way I felt last year when they got off to that poor start, but this year is different. This is a team w/ no depth and glaring holes. The pieces were there last year for them to make a run- this year those pieces have regressed or aren't there anymore

They'll still get better than 4-10. I'm not saying they'll win 95+ games, but they're still capable of winning 85-90 games with some better health and production.

[grizy]

[Bronson'sCornrows]

All things considered, they already designated Bowden for assignment so they were going to lose him anyways. He would have been claimed by someone, so they tried to get something for him. That said, I agree that Byrd isnt the answer at all.

Do you believe they should pull Bard from the rotation? With Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz probably locked into spots, you only have 2 more spots available. With Dice-K coming back in a few weeks, I don't think it is far fetched to see Bard moved back to the bullpen....I'm just not sure the Red Sox will do it since they want to maximize Bard's value and keep him a starter.

Most Sox fans would strongly disagree with me here, but no. I feel like the organization made a commitment to convert Bard back to a SP and they should stick with it. I know these moves don't always work (between Papelbon and Joba, we've both seen a lot of this in recent years), but Bard definitely has serious potential as a starter and needs time to get there. I'm willing to suffer through these losses in order to get there, even though other Sox fans might not be. I feel the same way about Doubront, whose overall stuff isn't as good, but is also a bit more polished.

Moving either guy back to the bullpen would be largely a panic move. Some would argue that it's a justified panic move, or that we need to make room in the rotation for Cook or Dice-K, but Buchholz looks like he might go on the DL sometime soon... there's definitely something wrong with him. If Clay goes to the DL, I'd rather have the rotation look like Lester/Becket/Cook/Bard/Doubront than any incarnation with Matsuzaka in it.

If I had things my way, the Sox would be trading for some BP help right now and not for a ................ing league average outfielder who is only going to be a marginal improvement at best over the backups we're plugging out there already. There's just a lot of panicking going on right now. The fans are panicking, the organization is panicking, and it's leading to a lot of bad ideas and at least one ................ty trade so far.

[Bronson'sCornrows]

That's the way I felt last year when they got off to that poor start, but this year is different. This is a team w/ no depth and glaring holes. The pieces were there last year for them to make a run- this year those pieces have regressed or aren't there anymore

I still feel like the Sox are going to turn things around at some point. The two questions that have me worried are A. to what extent and B. will it be too late by then? I still think they can make a run, but I'm not convinced that they will. I was last year despite the fact that they got off to an even worse start.

[parkerstrong]

Most Sox fans would strongly disagree with me here, but no. I feel like the organization made a commitment to convert Bard back to a SP and they should stick with it. I know these moves don't always work (between Papelbon and Joba, we've both seen a lot of this in recent years), but Bard definitely has serious potential as a starter and needs time to get there. I'm willing to suffer through these losses in order to get there, even though other Sox fans might not be. I feel the same way about Doubront, whose overall stuff isn't as good, but is also a bit more polished.

Moving either guy back to the bullpen would be largely a panic move. Some would argue that it's a justified panic move, or that we need to make room in the rotation for Cook or Dice-K, but Buchholz looks like he might go on the DL sometime soon... there's definitely something wrong with him. If Clay goes to the DL, I'd rather have the rotation look like Lester/Becket/Cook/Bard/Doubront than any incarnation with Matsuzaka in it.

If I had things my way, the Sox would be trading for some BP help right now and not for a ................ing league average outfielder who is only going to be a marginal improvement at best over the backups we're plugging out there already. There's just a lot of panicking going on right now. The fans are panicking, the organization is panicking, and it's leading to a lot of bad ideas and at least one ................ty trade so far.

I've watched Bard's first two starts he gets alot of swings and misses. I agree that he does have alot of potential as a starter....they should keep him there, but who knows? I am interested to see if the panic makes them move him back to the bullpen.

[NerfBall55]

Sure. We're gonna have to live not signing Swish this off season and maybe letting Cano walk to get under the luxury tax.

The Yankees will not let Cano walk.

[fredgmuggs]

I don't feel sorry for him because he's a jackass, but I completely agree that he has become the scapegoat for problems that he didn't create. He didn't sign John Lackey. He didn't hand out a bad contract to Carl Crawford. He didn't sign Aviles to play SS. He didn't construct that bullpen and to the best of my knowledge, he was never a proponent of Bard to the rotation.

With that said, Valentine is a world class jerk so he'll get no sympathy from me. He did everything he could to instigate a war of words with the Yankees and their fans this offseason and now it's coming back to bite him. Sox to be you, Bobby.

I don't believe anyone is putting the blame on Valentine but his personality at times can be equated to adding gasoline to a burning fire.

By the way, did anyone read Lupica's column in the Daily News today? He went after Theo today in order to defend Valentine. (you almost would think he was on the Sox PR payroll)

[Yankees1962]

I don't believe anyone is putting the blame on Valentine but his personality at times can be equated to adding gasoline to a burning fire.

By the way, did anyone read Lupica's column in the Daily News today? He went after Theo today in order to defend Valentine. (you almost would think he was on the Sox PR payroll)

I gave up reading Loopeeka years ago. Hell, the other day I was listening to ESPN Radio and he was still throwing darts at George.

[NelsonMuntz]

The Yankees will not let Cano walk.

Agreed.

[Yankees13]

They'll still get better than 4-10. I'm not saying they'll win 95+ games, but they're still capable of winning 85-90 games with some better health and production.

85-90 won't get them anywhere in the AL. There's enough talent that they should finish over .500, but I don't think it will be by much. To paraphrase a coach of another Boston team, Jonathan Papelbon isn't walking through that door, Curt Schilling isn't walking through that door, Manny Ramirez isn't walking through that door.

[Yankeeah]

Why haven't the Sox signed Oswalt yet?