The Red Sox Thread

[dgreco]

I think its time to give the Sox a bit of payback for making runs at our most beloved Yankees, namely Mariano Rivera in recent years (and if you wanna reach back, Bernie Williams)

Let's have a sit down with Ortiz's agent to make a "Public Offer" and raise his price. No reason to let the Sox get away cheap again by saying his suitors aren't true contenders for a ring...

IDK if the Sox will try to save face and overpay. as Yankee Fan in Boston said it would be a good PR move for the Sox, but this ownership has refused to overpay for players and have seen a bunch leave because of that. I have a feeling they may stick to the model and not overpay for a guy they like.

[ieddyi]

I think its time to give the Sox a bit of payback for making runs at our most beloved Yankees, namely Mariano Rivera in recent years (and if you wanna reach back, Bernie Williams)

Let's have a sit down with Ortiz's agent to make a "Public Offer" and raise his price. No reason to let the Sox get away cheap again by saying his suitors aren't true contenders for a ring...

Sounds familiar.... oh yeah, the Canseco waiver deal......

[ieddyi]

IDK if the Sox will try to save face and overpay. as Yankee Fan in Boston said it would be a good PR move for the Sox, but this ownership has refused to overpay for players and have seen a bunch leave because of that. I have a feeling they may stick to the model and not overpay for a guy they like.

ORLY?

Old meme, hard to argue that with the many bad FA deals recently- with Crawford being the cherry on the top

[dgreco]

ORLY?

Old meme, hard to argue that with the many bad FA deals recently- with Crawford being the cherry on the top

Sorry, for guys currently on the team like Damon, Papelbon, Miller, Trot, and Pedro. Don't get me wrong they have overpaid for guys from other teams: Lugo, Rentaria, Crawford, Matt Clement!, Cameron etc...

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

ORLY?

Old meme, hard to argue that with the many bad FA deals recently- with Crawford being the cherry on the top

Yeah, I think it will be hard for them to hold the line on Ortiz given their recent history. Of course, it's not like he's going to get an 7-year, $142 million offer at this point either. But their ability to justify hometown discounts has eroded considerably

[pleasepassthesoup]

ORLY?

Old meme, hard to argue that with the many bad FA deals recently- with Crawford being the cherry on the top

Up here, the thought is that they aren't willing to give money to their own guys, but they'll shell out tons of it for people from other teams.

[dgreco]

Yeah, I think it will be hard for them to hold the line on Ortiz given their recent history. Of course, it's not like he's going to get an 7-year, $142 million offer at this point either. But their ability to justify hometown discounts has eroded considerably

But from time to time they have shown that hometown players don't get the deal, but we will bring in the "next great star" and pay top dollar for him. IDK if Ortiz is that much different than the other locals they let go. Unless they really do need the PR move and try to keep the fans around; they do have that sellout streak to keep intact.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

But from time to time they have shown that hometown players don't get the deal, but we will bring in the "next great star" and pay top dollar for him. IDK if Ortiz is that much different than the other locals they let go. Unless they really do need the PR move and try to keep the fans around; they do have that sellout streak to keep intact.

They broke their own rule about length of contracts with Crawford (they had tried to with Tex). They actually haven't paid "top dollar" for that many guys; you can argue that Lackey was market rate as well. They seemingly changed their approach by giving bigger contracts to guys like Crawford and Gonzalez only recently when they stopped winning. Now that they had their recent debacle, and haven't won a playoff game since 2008, I can't see them deciding to go back to their previous course, unless someone offers Ortiz something ludicrous.

[awy]

Up here, the thought is that they aren't willing to give money to their own guys, but they'll shell out tons of it for people from other teams.

they should keep thinking that way. it does wonders for team morale.



ahahahhaha

[ieddyi]

They broke their own rule about length of contracts with Crawford (they had tried to with Tex). They actually haven't paid "top dollar" for that many guys; you can argue that Lackey was market rate as well. They seemingly changed their approach by giving bigger contracts to guys like Crawford and Gonzalez only recently when they stopped winning. Now that they had their recent debacle, and haven't won a playoff game since 2008, I can't see them deciding to go back to their previous course, unless someone offers Ortiz something ludicrous.

Their stance has really loosened up. Used to be they wouldn't go over 3 years and never did no trade clauses.

I think the relatively low cost of the home grown players is a happy consequence of developing their own great talent. Youkilis. Lil Dusty and Lester all gave up potentially larger paydays for security now. Having to buy out arb years gives the team a lot of leverage. Those deals were all for around the typical league price for similar deals Papelbon was the only one to play the string out and it paid for him. I don't get why more position players ( with less chance of career ending injury ) don't do the, but hey, if someone offered me generational financial security I'd probably bite also

With Lucky's increased clout, the balance is probably shifted a bit towards the $$$$ side- will be interesting to see how it plays out

My Christmas wishes includes hoping the the Bobby V led sawx get off to as horrible a start in 2012 as they did in 2011

[NerfBall55]

Sorry, for guys currently on the team like Damon, Papelbon, Miller, Trot, and Pedro. Don't get me wrong they have overpaid for guys from other teams: Lugo, Rentaria, Crawford, Matt Clement!, Cameron etc...

Just want to point out that them letting Damon go was not a case of not wanting to over pay, it was a case of them poorly evaluating his true value and what he would produce.

[TheHugeUnit2]

And I think while he loves Boston he is taking the best offer. At times last year it seemed like he really hated being in Boston (not because of the fans/but organization) and unless he gets the big money I think he walks.

Who is going to give him big money? He's an AL only player. AL West - Rangers, M's, A's and Angels. Rangers and Angels DH's are full. AL Central Indians, Twins, Sox, Royals and Tigers. All of those DH spots are taken(Hafner, Mauer(will get a lot of DH time I hear), Dunn, Butler and VMart) and then AL East O's, Rays, Jays and Yanks. Really the only teams who would be interested are O's, M's and A's. Why would those teams give up a pick and 13 million a year to a DH when they won't contend? His best offer is accepting arbitration and taking that 15 or 16 million one year deal and hope they offer it to him again next year and cash in again.

[ieddyi]

Read that Valentine's deal is for 2 years

Interesting as it seems like 3 years is the norm/minimum

W/ 2 years, the second year has him as a lame duck

Seems like less than a full vote of confidence

[SatchelPaigeYankee]

Read that Valentine's deal is for 2 years

Interesting as it seems like 3 years is the norm/minimum

W/ 2 years, the second year has him as a lame duck

Seems like less than a full vote of confidence

contract length doesnt really mean anything does it? is their pay even guaranteed?

[blumj]

Read that Valentine's deal is for 2 years

Interesting as it seems like 3 years is the norm/minimum

W/ 2 years, the second year has him as a lame duck

Seems like less than a full vote of confidence

For a manager with only 1 year of experience, John Farrell is now in fantastic bargaining position for an extension.

[TheInfallibleOne]

IDK if the Sox will try to save face and overpay. as Yankee Fan in Boston said it would be a good PR move for the Sox, but this ownership has refused to overpay for players and have seen a bunch leave because of that. I have a feeling they may stick to the model and not overpay for a guy they like.

Well then, if they don't overpay, then we have helped chase a big nemesis away from a big rival. Losing Ortiz DEFINITELY hurts their lineup more than most Sox fans care to imagine. And if they do overpay, great! Less payroll space for them is a bigger advantage to us than it is from their point of view when they chase our guys, or even when they chase our target FA's

[ieddyi]

contract length doesnt really mean anything does it? is their pay even guaranteed?

It's not the NFL- their contracts are guaranteed

[ieddyi]

For a manager with only 1 year of experience, John Farrell is now in fantastic bargaining position for an extension.

Or, he can wait till the end of the contract and replace Valentine ( or Valentines interim replacement )- he's got 2 years left on his deal

[b-ball-lunachick]

So, does anyone know who the players are that are not thrilled with the Valentine signing?

[Rice14]

So, does anyone know who the players are that are not thrilled with the Valentine signing?

My best guess would be Beckett and Youkilis.

[blumj]

I still can't get over how much Ben sounds like Theo, it's so weird.

[dgreco]

My best guess would be Beckett and Youkilis.

I wouldn't be surprised if you added Pedroia and maybe Lester to the list. Pedroia and Tito were basically best friends and I would expect him to not be a fan of a manager like Bobby V.

[b-ball-lunachick]

My best guess would be Beckett and Youkilis.

just by their temperament or by some juicy leaks? neither would surprise me...

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

just by their temperament or by some juicy leaks? neither would surprise me...

Please never include Beckett, Youkilis, and juicy in the same thought ever again.

[b-ball-lunachick]

Please never include Beckett, Youkilis, and juicy in the same thought ever again.

good point!